How would you rank the five first growths

Latuor, period!

Haut Brion

fwiw: just had Mouton 95 blind on Saturday, and while it was an excellent, even outstanding wine there was nothing screaming First Growth for me. Yes, enjoyable.


Agree that Mouton is my least favored first growth year to year. I did have one that changed my mind for a short while however.
Mouton killed it in 1959. I would take that one over all the others in that year. FWIW. Year to year I do like Howard’s list.

I have not had the 1959 Mouton, but the 1959 Latour was one of the greatest Bordeauxs I have ever had.

I have had a lot of Mouton that was utterly delicious. I guess I just like the style more than most.

Overall I could go:

Haut Brion

Lafite is at the bottom for me due to the number of dismal wines I have had from the 1970s, as well as stylistic preferences.

I don’t think I have had enough of any of them to make that judgment.

This is my order as well.

I’m sure you’ve had more than most.

I probably should have qualified with that sort of response as it relates to Margaux. I’ve had it, I’ve had it in some good to very good years, but have never had a bottle that screamed “this is as good as Bordeaux gets.” I have said that about Montrose, Vieux Chateau Certan, Cheval Blanc, and then some obvious ones like Petrus and Ausone. So for the Margaux fans, what vintage could change my mind, or perhaps better stated, give me that revelatory experience?

Mouton’s highs are much higher than Margaux and Lafite, but they don’t come very often.

But if you look at Bordeaux greatest, Mouton has made many of them. The 1945 and 1959 definitely,and 1961 also is up there. Too much variability with the 1982, but the best bottles are incredible. Never had a great 1986, and then a gap. 1996 is lovely but not great, 2010 is indeed great but 2016 is potentially as good as anything they have ever made. Bit the bullet and bought some. My unborn grandchildren’s wedding rehearsal dinner perhaps.

Me too. I’ve had the highest highs with Latour and Margaux, but Haut-Brion is so consistently excellent, that it’s my #1, I don’t worry about “off” vintages. Latour is second and then I think the step function is generally more to the next tier.

Like others, this wouldn’t be my list of favorite (or even best) Bordeaux.

Shafer Hillside

Oh wait…people actually still care about Bordeaux???


First I am. Second I used to (and probably still should) be. Mouton does not change.


How would I rank them ?

  1. Out of my price range
  2. Out of my price range .
  3. Out of my price range.
  4. Out of my price range.
  5. Out of my price range .

If I had to pick one Margaux that epitomizes my love for it: 1990. Might be too fruity for you.

I based my ranking on the wines I’ve had a chance to drink, mostly from late 70s to present but far from every vintage, with an occasional older bottle. When I think about it my ranking is based on different criteria for each house, so it’s far from academic or rigorous.

Haut Brion and Latour are #1 and #4 respectively based mostly on my personal like/dislike for their usual style. I admire Latour but the spark just isn’t there for me. Also a big plus for consistency for both, which helps HB but not so much Latour in my book.

Margaux as my #2 is less consistent but has hit some of the highest highs for me. And I’ll confess to being swayed by a fabulous tour, tasting, and dinner there with Corinne Mentzelopoulos and Paul Pontallier that remains the greatest single wine “experience” of my life.

Love Lafite’s style and consistency and would likely move it up from #3 to #2 if I were going by the wine itself.

Mouton has hit some home runs (1982, 1986) but it’s least consistent and even when it’s “on” it usually doesn’t push as many buttons for me as the others.

One really has to love the snowflakes who come into this thread to criticize Bordeaux but then start crying that lovers of European wines are too mean to them when their California wines are criticized. Why is the level of fervor is uneven: old world versus new world palates... - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers Would you like a participation trophy for coming onto this thread?

Interesting. I have had very high highs with Latour (and Mouton) but not with Margaux. I have had excellent Margauxs, but none that I would call wow wines.

I will start another thread on the favorites (or even best) non-first growth Bordeaux.

As Bordeaux is a Socialist wine shouldnt all wines be equal ?

That hasn’t stopped anyone on WB before. Fake it til you make it! [stirthepothal.gif]