How many white Burgundy drinkers have stopped or seriously reduced purchases of it?

WINE TALK
21

So who is left to buy?

22

I’m mainly buying less because of the economy. I’ve also decided that, at least for a while, to buy mostly older vintages that I have seen reliable TNs about.

23

used to buy cases and cases of the stuff, mostly grand cru, a lot of premier cru Meursault. Now I buy just on occasion and a lot fewer bottles–more Riesling and Muscadet, Austrian whites.
alan

24

I love white Burgundies, especially aged. But even before I became aware of the premox problem, good white Burgundy was an expensive proposition. Once you effectively double the price to allow for the half or so bottles you open that are flawed, it’s just not competitive, not to mention the aggravation factor that comes with the bad experiences.

I occasionally pick up a bottle here or there, either when I have something great at a tasting or when I come across a screaming bargain, but I mostly just put it out of mind now.

In the meantime, I’ve found chardonnays from new world producers that, while not exactly the same, I enjoy in similar ways – Mount Eden, Rhys, Peay, Hamilton Russell (from S. Africa), etc. – and without anywhere near the flaw rate. I also drink an increasing percentage of non-Chardonnay whites, especially the Tercero and Curran grenache blancs.

25

As I love white Burgundies I’ve narrowed my buys onto reliable sources and pray that they stay reliable; monitor them from the beginning, giving up my " buy and forget for 1o years " attitude.
Buying more Bourgogne for early drinking and less expensive icon wines.

26

Depends on your taste, but quite fond of the new Lafon wines, huge fan of Arnaud Ente, Roulot and many others. Lots of small producers I think are wonderful too, but I don’t list them b/c I sell quite a few of them.

27

Yes credit for the first bottle was a replacement bottle. Credit was also given on my credit card for the second bottle.
This is when I had the then head of customer service as my sales rep.

28

No Chablis?

29

I’ve stopped mostly though I would still buy Ampeau if I could find them. This is mostly due to premox but also to taste-they are not on the whole now made to appeal to those who have the patience to cellar them properly and I despise the new fruit forward style. Of course Coche and Leflaive don’t make such wines but they are now beyond my reach. I must admit though that a recent purchase of Carillon Chassagne villages 07 restored my faith a bit, though, awesome wine.

30

Why does the race of the drinker matter? [scratch.gif]

31

Still buying - mostly PC and GC. I drink them young so premox hasn’t been too much of a problem. I do have a few 99s that I intend to drink this year. But usually I only hold them a few years.

32

I’ve cut back, too. Just buy a few Chablis and nose-bleed 1ers, also Villaine whites. Bought some 08 Fevre mags early this year, an impulse that will probably come back to haunt me.

Interesting to hear about Zachys: I had three oxidized 2000 GC Chablis from them (2000); they wouldn’t replace the bottles or credit cost, but did extend a discount on an unrelated purchase. All in all, I thought this was a reasonable response.

33

I think I’ll join Facebook just so I can defriend white Burgundy.

I rarely buy a bottle these days, partially because I’ve still got a backlog of bottles from 1999-2002, plus a few 2004 Chablis, to go through. The few I have bought have mostly been the less expensive wines; I don’t see any point in spending $50-75++ on a bottle then drinking it while it’s still hiding most of its quality.

34

Rabble rouser.
Mob head.

neener

35

LOL
[gen_fro.gif]

36

Flawed poll for me.

I didn’t buy white burgundy to cellar prior to discovering the whole premox issue. Accordingly, I’m not buying less than I did before. That having been said, I certainly buy less than I would if there were no premox to worry about.

37

I’ve just slowed down because I own a bunch(165 blts) of it right now. So, I’m buying less than 1/2 but still buying selectively buying some Dauvissat and AOC Chablis currently. In a yr or so I’ll start buying in earnest again.

38

Slowed down all purchases across the board. I buy from a handful of wines from Fevre, Niellon, Bouchard and Boillot for short term drinking. No long term cellaring as I have been burned by premox too many times…

39

Leah,

Fevre and Bouchard appear to be good choices; I have no experience with Boillot. But I have had considerable trouble with Niellon, esp. his '99 premier crus. I would suggest Leflaive instead.

See you this month, I hope…

Paul

40

Mark:

I agree that the poll is flawed in one respect. There should have been an option for people who buy roughly the same amount but have changed the producers that they buy. Like Ian and Rainer and some of the others who have posted, I’m definitely in the “buy the same or more but switched the producers that I buy” category.

I love white burgundy and aside from a tiny handful of California chardonnays made to improve with bottle age, there’s no effective substitute. The key is to educate yourself as to the oxidation performance of the various producers and to completely avoid those who consistently produce oxidized wines and/or to buy with the plan of drinking the wines at an earlier point. For those who don’t already know that, the Oxidized Burgundies Wiki Site has both details on every producer in terms of people reporting whether bottles were oxidized or not oxidized and I’ve also got a separate page which groups producers into five separate categories based on their oxidation performance over time. The website address is listed with my signature below.

For the benefit of those like Charlie who have asked, here is my present list of the five categories of producers in terms of their oxidiation performance, and some notes thereafter on recent trends—

Category I: The first category is a group of producers whose rates of oxidation appear to be greater than one out of three bottles and, in a few cases, the incidence of oxidation approaches 100%, i.e. in my opinion, these are the worst performers from an oxidation perspective: Guy Amiot, Bonneau du Martray, Colin-Deleger, Coutoux, Droin, Fontaine-Gagnard, Jadot [after 1999], Jouard, Juillot, Matrot, Tessier and Verget.

Category II: The second category is a group of producers who have unexplainable seemingly “random” oxidation but at what would appear to be a clearly higher than normal or “above average” incidence. The producers who would presently fall in this category in my opinion are: Carillon, Girardin, Lafon, Hubert Lamy, Montille, Jean-Marc Pillot [recently “elevated” from Category I based on much better performance from 2000 on], Ramonet, Sauzet [recently “elevated” from Category I on the strength of the 2000-2002 vintages] and Roumier.

Category III: The third category is the largest group of producers for whom the oxidation incidence is “today’s normal” or roughly 10-15%. There are far too many producers to name here individually, but you can figure it out by process of deduction given the other listed producers in Categories I, II, IV and V.

Category IV: The fourth category is a group of producers who seem to have had oxidation problems in only one particular vintage or with one particular bottling in a vintage: Dauvissat (1996), Pernot (1995), Roulot (1996 Meursault Perrieres and perhaps others), Leroy SA (1996 Meursault Perrieres initial release) and Pierre Morey (1999).

Category V: The fifth and final group of producers are those who have very little premature oxidation as a percentage of bottles opened and indeed seem to have no higher incidence of premature oxidation since 1994 than they did before, i.e., Coche-Dury, DRC, Leflaive, Leroy/D’Auvenay and Raveneau.

What are the recent trends? In my opinion, several producers are doing much better after 1999 while others are getting worse. Some others you still have to be very wary of.

Producers showing marked improvement

Sauzet: This estate was one of the poster children for premox in the 1995, 1996 and 1999 vintages. Since 2000 there have been no significant issues. Has made major changes in winemaking, including eliminating batonnage, changing cork suppliers, eliminating cork treatments, changing the shape and diameter of the bottle neck, etc.

Carillon: High incidence of premox from 1995-1999. Much better from 2000 on. Has substantially increased SO2 additions starting with 2005.

Jean-Marc Pillot: Another producer with huge problems in 1995, 1996 and 1999 and much better from 2000 on. This producer had initially decreased SO2 use to 17ppm in the 1990’s. They apparently increased the SO2 level starting with the 2000 vintage and and again in 2005. Currently using 30 ppm.

Bouchard: This producer has exhibited a fairly low incidence of premox over the 1995-2002 vintages. Today this estate is the most single-minded about eliminating premox and has spent considerable time and money on the issue. Among the changes made are an increase in SO2 use, performing batonnage only in closed barrels by rolling the barrel, a new ultra-low oxygen bottling line, changing cork suppliers to producers of non-irrigated corks who harvest only every 12 years and weighing every cork (to eliminate low density, i.e. more porous, corks) on their top crus. Bouchard clearly wins the prize for the greatest amount of effort and research devoted to the problem.

Lafon: This producer had above average to well above average incidence of premox in 1995, 1996, 1999 and 2001, but thus far has had much better performance in 2000 and 2002. Batonnage has been severely restricted and is now performed by rolling the barrels. Reductive wine making techniques have been utiliized here since at least 2000 if not before. Cork standards have been raised. Beginning with 2004, corks are no longer bleached and are coated with 100% paraffin. SO2 level at bottling was increased beginning with 2005.

I have confidence in all of the above producers and have resumed buying all of them.

Producers for whom the problem is getting worse–

Jadot: If there is a poster child for premox starting with the 2000 vintage it is Jadot. In my view, Jadot was overwhelmingly the worst premox offender of the 2000 vintage which otherwise has a very low oxidation rate. Jadot was equally bad in 2001 and the incidence is approximately 50% at this point for the 2002 vintage. I have already heard reports of serious oxidation of 2004 Jadots from people whose palates I trust implicitly. From the 2000 vintage on, this is a producer to absolutely avoid in my opinion.

Producers to buy with your eyes wide open and whose wines you should not forget in the cellar —

Henri Boillot: Boillot produces excellent wines, but they definitely mature faster than other top tier wines --probably by at least two years. To me this producer’s optimum drinking window is from five to eight years. If you hold them any longer than that, you will experience well above average rates of oxidation. (So far, the 2000 vintage is the only exception to this rule.)

Ramonet: This is a producer I love, but Ramonet had overwhelming oxidation from the top to the bottom in 1995 and 1996. I once thought Montrachet was exempt, but have now had oxidized 1996 Montrachet as well. There is an above average level of oxidation reported for the premier crus in the 1999-2002 vintages. I’ve had many grand crus from these vintages, but so far I’ve not experienced an oxidized grand cru. Unless we conclude that the practices are different for the Ramonet grand crus, it’s only a matter of time.

Significant Producers I currently won’t buy at any price because the premox risks are just too high—

Blain-Gagnard: can produce amazing wine, but too much premox risk for me
Bonneau du Martray: Oxidation in every vintage from 1996 to 2004
Colin-Deleger: Probably the reigning poster child for premox, although the Chevalier wasn’t oxidized in my 2001 and 2002 annual vintage tastings.
Fontaine-Gagnard: a shame here, because the best bottles of 2000 and 2002 are incredibly good
Jadot: won’t buy anything prduced after 1999
Matrot: One of the worst overall performances for vintages 1999 to 2002.