So when you arrange for a tasting at a winery, how many bottles make it worthwhile for the winery?
You will likely receive various opinions on this one. My two cents. It depends on the the type of winery. Boutique, commercial, high volume - all have slightly different expectations.
It seems like the higher end boutique wineries are happy if you buy anything. It gets you on their mailing list so that they have a chance to get some annuity business. You’ll notice that many of these types of wineries waive tasting fees with even a one bottle purchase. Some don’t even address tasting fees as they rarely accept private appointments. Seems like folks typically buy at least a 3 pack during these tastings.
The “commercial” wineries (I would put wineries like Larkmead and Pride into this bucket) are hoping for a larger purchase and preferably a wine club sign up. Pride isn’t nearly as pushy as Larkmead in trying to get a big spend.
The high volume folks really don’t care what you do. They are so used to having purchase quantities being as low as zero that their expectations are similar. These type of wineries may charge tasting fees regardless of purchase due to the amount of “tourists” that just stop by for a glass of wine.
Since you are paying (for the most part) to taste in many places these days, and if you are somewhat nonplussed and feel so compelled, buy nothing.
If someone goes out of thier way for you and arranges a tasting and the wine is pretty good, why not at least a few.
I almost always buy at least 3 bottles, just wondering if that is “enough”. I used to buy quite a bit more, but experience has shown that the experience of tasting in person at the winery can distort my judgment and that it is best to buy a few, taste one at home and then decide if its worth going after more.
Another question, I will be going to a few wineries where I am on the mailing list and have just recently bought from, ok to not buy more if offered?
Like Giammalvo stated above, it really matters on the context of the tasting and the business model of the winery in question. Also, I would throw in the wrench of did you like the wine or not.
For me, the past few trips to Napa Valley have been to taste at ultra small production, mailing list only wineries. With those, there is usually no wine for sale outside of the allocation email that comes out to their respective mailing lists. I get to taste the next vintage in the queue and maybe something in barrel to whet my whistle. Cannot buy anything at that point.
If I do stop in at a random winery, and I do find something that I like, I usually get a large format if available. If not, one or two bottles does not seem out of line when we are talking about $100+ bottles.
Hitting a tourist trap for kicks and giggles does not generally generate a sale for me. Last time in Napa, I went to Silver Oak to just have a little fun. Wines still were big, oaky, bell pepper messes. I bought zero, but got my money’s worth from the tasting fee and so did the winery.
I have often wondered the same thing. I have bought bottles because I felt obligated/guilty. But that has changed.
Tasting Fees: If a winery charges, then there is not obligation unless the wine is fantastic
No Tasting Fees: 2 bottles if the wine is good. If great, then 6.
Pushy Service - I never visit again and tell everyone to not to.
I too feel that if I pay a tasting fee, then we are even and no purchase is required.
If there is no tasting fee I feel it is only right to purchase at least a couple of bottles, and more if the host has gone out of their way to make us feel welcome or to accommodate us.
The situation that causes the most difficulty is when I have a “private” tasting with no fee - especially if the winery does not normally offer regular public tastings. These have always been my most favorite tastings and have included great stops at wineries such as Patricia Green, Londer (pre-tasting room), Lewelling, Staglin, Le Cadeau, St. Innocent (pre-tasting room) Paloma and Walter Hansel. I typically try to have at least 3 couples participate and always tell each couple that they should expect to purchase a case of of wine or more (and certainly no less than a 1/2 case).
I would also say that if I’m buying wine just because I feel “obligated” to do so because of the tasting, then I’ve picked the wrong wineries. I would prefer to be in a position to buy the wines because I really like them and think they are worth buying at whatever their price point is.
Bruce
Absolutely.
As to the original question, there is no real answer, you just have to do what you think is fair under each set of circumstances. I rarely fail to make a purchase on a visit, except if it’s an impersonal experience and I paid a tasting fee (but even then, there is usually something that I ended up liking or wanting).
This thread points to an interesting dilemma: many wine geeks seem to be excessively put off by wineries charging tasting fees, almost offended at the idea, but the absence of a fee makes one feel compelled to make a purchase or seem like a jerk. Which isn’t a problem if, as is usually the case, you actually want to make a purchase after the free tasting. But sometimes you may not have liked the wines, or other times you’re traveling and don’t have capacity (or unlimited capacity) for schlepping bottles home with you, or there may be other reasons.
This is part of the reason I don’t generally mind paying tasting fees, particularly ones that may be waived because of a purchase. If the fee is out of proportion to my interest, I just won’t go there, but otherwise, I kind of like everything being on the table up front and no need to have intangible worries about what I need to do in order not to commit a faux paus. I know that opinion puts me in the minority around here, but then, so do most of my opinions. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I feel like if you’re at a larger commercial winery with a staffed tasting room, there’s no real obligation to buy anything. I also feel like if you’re paying a tasting fee (a real tasting fee like $15-$25–not some $5 fee), you’re not obligated to buy anything. But I try to spend about $100 if it’s the sort of sit down where you’re with the winemaker at his or her kitchen table, they’re running you through a private tasting, and they’ve set the appointment up personally or through one of their three or four colleagues.
I agree that an interesting, informative, private tasting with the winemaker sometimes makes the wines seem better than they really are. I never sign up for wine clubs etc until I’ve had a chance to taste the wines at home, and after they’ve had a month or more to get over travel shock.
If the winemaker spends an hour with you, and offers up his best wines, then I think a $250 purchase is appropriate. Maybe more if the wines sell for >$100/bottle. If you are already on the mailing list and spend more than $1,000 per year with them, then I think no purchase is necessary, perhaps one bottle if they go above and beyond the norm.
A few examples. In a recent trip to napa, I visited 3 wineries that are all highly lauded on this board. The first had a private tasting set up for me, and opened quite a few (6 if I remember) single vineyard wines for the wife and I. Out of the 6, I only really liked one, and it of course was their most expensive. They had an advertised rate for the svd tasting per person and I fully expected to pay that rate. At the end of the tasting, I simply didnt want to invest those kinds of dollars into wine the wife and I thought we could buy elsewhere (that was as good or better) for less money. I explained this and asked to pay, and they refused to take my money for the tasting fee.
The second one is a small winery and they only offer private tastings. They were very accommodating, even to the point of going out of their way to make our schedule work with theirs. They took a couple of hours with us and opened 3-4 bottles. Again, I have to admit, I really disliked the wine. I tried to find the one bottle out of the 3-4 we tried and buy 3. I would not have bought the wine under other circumstances, and wont purchase from them going forward, but I felt it was the right thing to do, to at least purchase an equivalent amount of wine, to what they opened for us to taste (again these were 100 plus bottles).
The last stop was a surprise. We drove by a winery, called them on a whim, and they took us right away. they opened up several svd chards, and several cabs and even took us on a tour of their caves, and let us taste from the barrel (several different barrels) The wine was expensive (to me) We really liked the wine, in fact like every bottle we had. I purchased 3 chards, and two cabs and all of them were in the 100-150 range. They of course put me on the list, and I havent purchased since. Again, I loved the wine, but I find that I can get similar wines that I love for about half the cost.
So I suppose I am in the camp of if I paid for the tasting, I dont feel I need to buy. If it was a generous tasting and it was comped, I feel I need to at a minimum pay something, buy a few bottles, something. If I had a top shelf tasting , and they really went out of their way, AND I liked the wine, I try and make a substantial purchase at that time, but don’t commit to future purchases. I have joined two many clubs being at the winery, that when I actually got the wine home and drank it in different circumstances, I didnt love it as much as I thought.
One more contrast, I am also on a few list that only have wine by allocation. I have tasted at one of those. The owner met my wife and I , and opened up every wine he had from that year. It was one of our highlights going to sonoma. We tasted through all his wines, and barrel samples, and had a great time. On top of this, it has become my very best wine. I take all I am offered every single offering, and will continue to do so. he didnt charge me a dime, or even try and sell me wine when I was there. I did express my interest in having my allocation upped, and the next fall, he did as I asked. I made sure I did as I said and bought it all.
Overall I have changed my strategy on list and wine clubs. I use to be a mile wide and several inches deep taking 3 bottles from this club or that, and being in a lot of clubs. Now after several years of tasting and figuring out what we like, we are in 5 clubs and take multiple cases from each, each year.
For places that rarely do tastings, at least 2x as many bottles as they opened.
My feelings exactly. A commercial tasting room is “casting a wide net”. They know and expect that lots of folks from the “general public” will come through and buy nothing…they are counting in just finding a few folks who like the wines enough to get on the mailing list, join the “wine club”, or buy a few bottles (or more). However, they have no concerns at all about individuals who taste and buy nothing. When they DO have this concern, they simply implement a tasting fee. Then the concern is gone. If you pay a fee, you should feel no concern about not buying (and I don’t think anyone at the winery cares at all). That’s what the fee is for…to cover the expense of non-purchasers. They generally give you a credit for your fee if you DO purchase wine.
A friendly, private tasting, scheduled in advance, which may even have food pairings, etc., is a different thing altogether. If the wine is completely unappealing, I would probably not buy anything (although I would feel a little guilty), but usually I would try to find something I like enough to purchase, and ideally, if the wine is nice, I would like to purchase several bottles or more (3+)…None of this is really an issue–It is rare that a winery would have such terrible wine that I couldn’t find anything I would be able to enjoy (even if it’s just a Sauv Blanc, Chardonnay, etc.). And I can’t imagine going to the trouble to arrange a private tasting at a winery with terrible wine…
Interesting thread and comments. It has been quite a while (maybe 10yrs) since I’ve done misc. tastings in Napa/Sonoma at wineries where I am not on the mailing list and so already a regular customer. Ironically, in the last 7-8yrs my tasting experiences have tended to be in France and I really wish that I could have bought at most of them (would have done anything to buy directly at places like Rousseau, Dugat, Mugnier, Leflaive, Vogue and the like but there is no wine to sell (and a fight to buy them here at retail)…though I have bought on many CdP and N. Rhone visits where they had wine to sell) - though when making those appts or at those visits, I do make it clear that I have been a regular customer and buy/drink their wines and that is why I wanted to visit.
In fact, apart from trips way back when in the 90s where I stopped randomly at “walk-in” commercial tasting rooms, it is rare that I bother to set up a tasting at a winery that I don’t know and like and therefore am already a customer (whether direct or indirect through my local retailer) - as a result, since I am already a customer and the point of the visit is to meet/talk with the winemaker (personal connection) and try new vintages from barrel or just bottled to inform future buying decisions, it is a question that I haven’t thought about all that much in the last 15yrs.
Perhaps I’m wrong (and I could be), but in my opinion if you are already a customer, particularly a regular annual purchaser (even better a regular mailing list purchaser), I don’t see any need to buy more at the particular time of the visit since you have been a supporter through prior purchases and will continue to be a supporter through continuing purchases. Though perhaps many visits early in my wine buying days were for shits and giggles, since most of the time now the wines that I buy need some time in the cellar, visits now for me are very important data points to educate myself on the wines themselves, the current vintage and confirm/prompt buying decisions.
To a certain extent, I think wineries/winemakers have to decide how and why they take visitors and view it in that light. If there is a commercial tasting room they either charge or don’t for tastings (their marketing/economic decision) and as a commercial enterprise, people should pay the fee and buy when they want to and not buy when they don’t like it. For private visits/tours/tasting, the question perhaps comes down to why the winemaker agreed to the appt and why the visitor is there and there can be many reasons on both sides… and not just a quid pro quo of the moment. Is it because you have been a long time buyer? Is it because the winemaker sees it as a good opportunity to get a new customer and it is just part of “marketing”? Is the visitor there for entertainment or is it a serious evaluative visit for buying purposes?
Ancillary question which is maybe the reverse of what we are discussing - maybe I should start a new thread but I thought I’d try here first for opinions…
I hope to make it out to Napa/Sonoma later this year and will want to set up an appt at a particular winery (boutique non-retail) from whose mailing list I have been buying for 7 vintages - probably averaging 30 bottles annually, with the latest shipment arriving soon amounting to 39 bottles (from what I can gather I am lucky and have among the largest allocations since most people only get offered 12-18 bottles) - they are $80-100 bottles and so at least in my opinion a pretty decent annual dollar amount. Someone recently told me that they had a nice visit there but that the tasting fees were really high ($100 give or take).
So, the question is - does a long/good purchase history rise to the level of some time/attention and a tasting without additional charge? Is part of great customer service (and probably good marketing/customer relations at the same time), making time for and providing tastings for someone who is a regular/good buyer of the wines? Or to state it another way, is the Kapcsandy model of waiving their high tasting fee for their Grand Vin Club members the right way to do it?
If they don’t waive the fee, I may just go anyway as the amount charged is certainly small relative to what I spend with them and I do view it as a worthwhile/educational experience given how much wine of theirs I own and drink…but admittedly it would give me pause and I think I would be disappointed.
Dan, IMO, as a long time and large scale purchaser, they should wave the tasting fee and welcome you with open arms. Also, I would think that they would do something special for you above and beyond the normal tasting…barrel samples, experimental blends, food, etc.
After all, you are talking about three to four grand a year for multiple years of loyalty. They should be sending you email invites every so often asking when you will make it out to taste.
I realize you’re writing from the other side of things, but do you not think this could potentially be a little much to ask, especially if the bottles are expensive individually and as the visitor didn’t really have much say in how many bottles got opened? Obviously the tasting is a better experience if the winery opens a bunch of bottles, but it’s hard to expect someone to purchase a full case because you happened to do that.
I appreciate your candor about the experiences. This reinforces my point earlier in the thread, that while we wine geeks tend to be very negatively disposed towards tasting fees, it’s worth reconsidering whether you wouldn’t rather just pay your $10-25 or whatever so you don’t feel obligated to buy wines (potentially expensive, potentially at much higher prices than you could get the wines elsewhere, potentially ones you may not like that much) as an unstated quid pro quo for the tasting, or else feel like you might have been a bad guy for not having done so.
Of course, this only applies in a certain category of tasting situations (e.g. it’s not really an issue when you go places where you are an active mailing list or wine club buyer already, it’s not an issue when you taste most places in Europe), but in those categories, a tasting fee might be much less of a bad thing that we tend to reflexively suppose.
I never felt obligated, just bought what I liked and wanted.