How long would you Slow-O these for?

WINE TALK
1

1970 Gruaud Larose
1979 Montrose
1990 Pichon Lalande
1990 Pichon Baron

Given the wide range in age, I figured I’d better plan this out in advance. Thanks

2

Wow. Toughie.

The '70 Gruaud is probably good to go with a gentle decant.

'79 Montrose, maybe 2 hours?

The '90s probably need a couple hours in the decanter.

3

I’m not into slow-oxing Bordeaux, unless it’s older than anything I own. It’s hard to hurt any of these wines by decanting. OK to slow ox the 1970 if you want-3-4 hours, but a double decant 1/2-1 hr before should be fine.
the 79, double decant anhour before.
the 1990’s in open decanter for 2-3 hours or double decant 3-4 hour ahead. If you are going to have a long drawn out affair with only afew people and savor the wines for longer, then youcan shorten the decant times.

4

Just my humble 2 cents, but in my experience:
for ANY wine slow-oxy is better than long decanting.
BUT slow-o (pulling the cork in advance and simply waiting) has only an effect after 2, 3 - better 4-6 hours, due to the tiny surface.
Even decanting AFTER slow-o (to separate the sediment) seems to be less harmful than without slow-o … the danger of getting harsh astringent tannins is much lower.

So my humble advice is: to slow-o all wines if possible for several hours (also very old ones),
if further aeration seems to be necessary, decanting AFTERWARDS …
or for old wines decant only gently and immediately before serving to remove sentiment …

BTW: double decanting in my opinion is a very brutal method which can cause more astringency than bringing benefit. The oxygen is forced into the wine very quickly and heavily - bringing out the structure faster than the fruit and bouquet. If at all - only recommended for very youthful powerful wines AND if time for slow-o isn´t available.

Just my 0.02 …

5

I have to agree with Gerhard on this. I’m much more of a fan of slow-ox unless you need to travel with the bottles, in which case you’re stuck with decanting.

With the 1970, I would slow-ox for 3-4 hours and then pour easily to not disturb the sediment.

I’ve had the 1979 Montrose recently and it will benefit from a 3-4 hour slow-ox as well. Same comment as above about the sediment.

The 1990 Pichon Baron is such a baby right now that I would be inclined to leave it alone for another 5 years at least. If you must open it, a slow-ox of at least 8 hours would benefit it.

The only bottles of 1990 P-L that I’ve had were not very good (I agree with Parker’s initial rating), so I can’t give advice on it.

6

Thanks John, glad to read that about the PB still being on the young side. What did you think of the '79 Montrose?

7

You folks have a lot of experience behind you, so we should all be listening, but I personally have never really seen a need for slow oxing anything other than very old wines. when folks talk about how brutal decanting is, I wonder exactly what they are doing. there’s nothing about properly decanting that’s any more brutal than pouring wine in your glass. the only think sudden or shocking about decanting is that the entire bottle gets exposed to oxygen at the same time.

But as I say, you folks have quite a bit of experience. Is your opinion about slow-ox just from accumulated experience, or have either of you done comparisons of the same wine slow-oxed vs decanted?

8

It’s fully mature Brian and probably won’t hold up to a double decant. It was a good, old school Bordeaux. It went well with the grilled steak, as I recall.

9

I was writing about DOUBLE decanting.
The “brutal” thing with decanting is that a wine that slept for years/decades behind a cork (almost) without oxygen and (usually) in cool, dark conditions - is SUDDENLY - often with a lot of SPLASH - exposed to air.

Wine is kind of a living thing … think about a man deeply asleept who is suddenly waken up by a loud BANG … he will not be as fit and consious for a certain time compared to a man gently waken up by the early rays of the morning sun …
OR a diver a 100 yards deep into the ocean has to dive up VERY slowly, meter by meter, otherwise he will get insured or even die !

Many other examples …

So when decanting I would always do it very gently, along the sides of the caraffe, not with a big splash - and with double decanting (at least when refilling it into the original bottle) you have a lot of splash and the double dosis of O2 …

As I said: 0.02

10

I think there can be a little confusion when people talk about decanting. A double decant for me is a very gentle decant against the wall of the decanter, and very gentle back into the clean bottle, again slow and with a funnel that puts it high against the wall of a bottle that I tilt slightly. there’s no splashing at all. (there’s also a splash decant, which some folks do with a very young wine, but this is something I never do as I don’t think it ever adds anything). I think some folks assume that a decant is always a splashy thing.

11

For me John, it’s most accumulated experience from opening a lot of bottles from the 1950s back “a while ago” when my wife and I both had big birthdays (sorry, no more detail on that! [basic-smile.gif] ). The first few just didn’t perform well when popped and decanted, even after some air time. Then I started slow-ox’ing them and the difference was dramatic. That’s as close to a comparison as I can come for you unfortunately, as I didn’t really keep detailed notes on it. So for me, I slow-ox if at all possible.

12

I’ve had 3 bottles of the Pichon Baron in the last couple months, and all were just flat out gorgeous. All were treated with 2-4 hour slow ox, transport to restaurant, and then drinking over dinner. Very ready IMHO bu YMMV as do all our taste buds :slight_smile:.

13

Thanks. A lot of this is just speculation on most everyone’s part, but my take on slow ox vs decant is that slow ox aerates the wine slowly, so rate of change is even and slow with a fairly flat curve of improvement. so once you’ve had adequate time (2-3 hours is basically nothing–more like 6-8 hrs), it doesn’t matter much when you sample the wine–the curve is pretty flat at this point and as long as it has had enough time, it will show well.

Whereas if you decant/double decant, the whole bottle is exposed and the rate of change/improvement is a much steeper curve, and some components may change more rapidly than others. I don’t really believe in bruising wines, but I suppose if you sample the wine at the wrong phase, you may get more tannins or bitterness, etc. Personally, I haven’t noticed much difference, but perhaps this is why some folks dislike the decant approach.

14

Regarding the 1990 Pichon Baron, I opened two bottles just recently, and they were magnificent with just a quick decant and pour. I was surprised, as I expected the wine to be tight. Here are my notes:

  • 1990 Château Pichon-Longueville Baron - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac (3/9/2014)
    Wow! This is in a wonderful drinking window now, and it has the structure to go for the long haul - another 10-20 years. However, I doubt it will get better, just different. Popped, decanted and poured. The wine was open and singing from the get-go. Medium dark purple with no bricking. Long legs. Nose of Cassis, lilac and some mild earthiness. Tons of dark berries with cassis and minerals. Full and chewy yet smooth tannins and acid to almost perfectly balance the prominent fruit. Two bottles were both superb and consistent. (96 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

15

My reason for advocating slow-ox, especially on older wines (40 years plus) is because a strange bottle stink seems to develop over time that, upon initial opening, can make you believe the wine is over the hill or dead. As we’ve heard from Francois A. numerous times, that bottle stink disappears and the great wine emerges after hours of slow-ox. Aeration by decanting does not have the same effect, in my experience.