How a Somm can destroy his credibility in one sentence

Does anyone really care if their somm knows Bordeaux blancs? Sure, if they have all the best on the menu but how many bottles of that are actually moved through restaurants in the US per year?

So much of this strikes me as projection about what each person thinks someone else should know because they themselves have taken the time to know random facts. Facts that matter nothing for most wine professionals opening bottles and talking about their own menu.

How does anyone’s dining experience suffer when a somm doesn’t know your favorite label if the restaurant doesn’t serve it?

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This guy knows DdC. Guaranteed, or your money back.

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It was a red not a blanc.

I knew all the bordeaux that was listed by OP on their wine list and had tried all of them.I don’t like bordeaux but doesn’t mean I haven’t had my fair share offered to me to taste. I have legit never even touched a bottle of the domaine in question. That’s why I can understand not knowing the wine.

“lesser prestige” when we’re down to rank 35-50 on a list - it’s really quibbling who is higher than the other.


Also

there’s a difference between “would I be surprised if he didn’t know”

and “HIS CREDIBILITY IS SHOT.”

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Totally agree here. There is.

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Consider that some might be because not a somm and know without putting meaningful effort to know. So maybe some expectation that guy whose job it is should know.

I mean when I go to La Madeleine I expect the guy at the register to be able to suggest a nice rosé from Provence.

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Mikko’s earlier posts (#13, #19) make it clear that the list included lots of well-known mainstream wines, including a lot of Bordeaux.

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I guess the only appropriate way to celebrate the multiple facets this thread has formed is to grab a GLVSAIN Universal (yes, not Glasvin), pop a cork from this up-and-coming producer from an obscure region, and drink some wine!

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Rats! You should have PM’d me! I was looking for something to drink!

Everyone should know that’s a melon fruit wine from Burgundy, of course :grin:

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So many posts for a day(!), but jumping in because, I mean, it’s DDC. And I love it. And so do most people I’ve met who really love Bordeaux and in particular traditional well-aged Bordeaux. (I’m sure there are naysayers out there, but there always are.)

DDC is to my mind tied with Pape Clement as the best terroir in Graves after Haut Brion and La Miss. The only other estate you can make an argument for at that level is Haut Bailly. Although DDC went badly astray starting in 2002, hopefully it’s back as of 2016 in a globally warmed form—only time will really tell. I’m a bit skeptical myself. But wines from the ‘20s to the ‘80s in particular are wonderful, complex classics. I’ve been a bit lucky to have had so many great DDC from friends from the ‘20s and ‘30s and up through the 80s at least. They are amazing. It was a period I think they were more consistently excellent than Pape Clement and Haut Bailly. Overall the estate was incredibly consistent, making many delicious and profound wines over decades. On countless wine nights among great wines, it has shown its chops.

With this history and record, for sure, it’s a top 20 Left Bank estate for people who have traditional Bordeaux love (and insist on rankings). But even that is a bit of a weird way to look at it — in terms of other Left Bank wines — given how unique Graves is. Graves/Pessac is its own category even as compared to the true Left Bank villages.

In sum, it seems ludicrous to discount the estate and its significance, as is done in some of the posts above to my view, especially by those who don’t know or appreciate Bordeaux at all.

But that said, if one doesn’t really know or appreciate Bordeaux (that’s your prerogative and taste), even as a Somm, I could see you not knowing or having an informed opinion about any of this. In NYC, for example, where so many restaurants feel compelled to have a wine program and Somms of different experience levels, there are many young Somms (in experience, not age) who don’t know a lot about a lot. It takes time. Like any job, I give the benefit of the doubt that they need experience, and if they stick with it and are good, they will get it. But why would I expect a Somm who doesn’t have the years of knowledge that I and many of us have to magically know everything about everything in an insanely large wine world? That’s true even with respect to historically famous Bordeaux, which for a long time now has not been the focus of most wine programs. If a young Somm’s experience and wine program veer elsewhere than Bordeaux, they aren’t going to know it. And I don’t think making arguments they are bad at their job from the starting point of — it’s Bordeaux, they should know it — makes sense the way it would have 30 years ago. That’s my view anyway. It’s a different world.

On the issue of Somm engagement when it’s clear they may not know everything about Bordeaux (or pick your favorite famous region)—if I can engage a young Somm in a friendly way and/or give them a taste, why wouldn’t I? It’s no different really than “paying it forward” to younger generations of wine geeks by opening the bottles they would otherwise never try. And I also engage with the Somms about what they do and should know, their own list, even if it’s often not that helpful to me to do so (per a different recent thread and poll on WB). Even if I don’t get help from the Somm, it’s still enjoyable just to talk to them about wine like I would talk to anyone else interested in it. Or any of you. Geeking out is what we do.

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Hmmm, it strikes me as straight-up weird that you’ve had Sociando Mallet, Gloria, and Pichon Lalande’s second wine, but not DdC, but I suppose that’s not any more weird than the very random smattering of Burgundies I’ve tried, so I get where you’re coming from now that you’ve explained your personal experience. (although I still would expect a wine professional to know about DdC with the other three aforementioned Bdx on their list).

Re: the “lesser prestige” and “30 -50 ranking”: I probably have DdC in the 20 - 30 range, but that’s Left Bank only, as I don’t drink much right bank. The other three (Sociando Mallet, Gloria, Pichon Comtesse Reserve) – I wouldn’t put any of those three in a Left Bank top 50 list. But this ranking thing feels like a red herring. We all know Meiomi and Caymus — does that mean we all think they’re worthy of a lofty ranking?

Agree on your last point, particularly because I don’t think a somm’s credibility is measured on what non-list wines they do and don’t know. Similar-but-materially-different: I’d have a hard time taking recommendations from a somm. who didn’t understand that red Burgundy is Pinot Noir, for example (assuming it’s not Gamay, or any other super-esoteric oddity); but even that somm may have a grasp of their wines and how they play with the food on their menu, but still … I’d be asking for a small taste before I took their word on anything after seeing ignorance at a level like that.

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I had wine made from the Muscadine grape, made in Mississippi once. We were on a road trip with our friend visiting from France. It took many gallons of water to wash the smell out of the drain :sweat_smile:.

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Muscadine cider is actually not bad, I’ve had that in NC before. Maybe it just tastes better near the beach though. Definitely quite sweet.

Maybe that’s where we went wrong. We tried the dry table wine :joy:. Our friend will always remember that and the “this is food?” moments from the highway gas station stops. She was astonished at the colors of everything :us:.

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Frank Prial once wrote in The NY Times that Muscadet is made from Sauvignon Blanc

And while Jayson said it all well I’m still surprised there are people in this board who haven’t heard of DDC (less surprised that a random somm might not have), don’t you people read Mark G’s posts?

Once price is taken Into account it’s definitely in my top ten bordeaux properties(2001 and earlier )

And Mikko, you did nothing wrong

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I ended up with 9 of those from Berserker Day. 3 were broken in the first shipment but were replaced with Glasvin. Surely the GLVSAIN Kato will become increasingly more valuable over time!

Great analogy, but it’s George Eliot. :wink:

Now if the bookstore employee asked if I had read any of HIS other books, we’d have a problem! :laughing:

One other thought: Does the somm not knowing a particular producer on a corkage bottle preclude him from recommending a bottle on HIS list?

I think not.

He might not be able to win the “gotcha” game with Berserkers, but he could have a good palate.

Personally, I’d give the guy a break.

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Just say “very nice” and go on, your ignorance hasn’t been revealed and you’ve sorta flattered your customer-win/win

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