It’s tough, because nobody comes out of the womb knowing about Domaine de Chevalier (or Cabernet Sauvignon for that matter) so I would always try to be generous with someone if they are being genuinely inquisitive.
I think saying “I don’t know this producer” is a perfectly acceptable response to seeing a wine brought in for corkage you’re not familiar with (and usually better than bullshitting), but the worst part was - or at least it sounded like - the somm expressed no curiosity or desire to become familiar with it (and declined a taste! heresy, or maybe they were just off the sauce).
In my former career and current moonlighting side gig on restaurant floors, I’m always excited when people bring bottles I’m not familiar with or haven’t had the chance to taste; great opportunity to learn and even better if they’re generous enough to offer up a pour.
I think it’s OK to make your own decision about how much you trust a given somm with a choice if you were planning to leave it up to them.
Dunno why you all are so offended by the growing wine public have lessening interest in Bordeaux . There’s a reason why Bordeaux sales are consistently dropping.
I wouldn’t say swaggy wines but if every somm needs know a producer in Bordeaux that people here have generously ranked from 30-50th in Bordeaux estates , they should need to know at least similarly burgundy domaines, Napa, Spain, Italy, Germany too?
Interesting discussion, and not sure if additional context changes anyone’s viewpoints here, but I think I’m able to guess the restaurant (given this is Charlotte, the number of places with Gloria and SM on the list is probably 1). Also, given Mikko’s description, the somm is actually the beverage director for the restaurant group, and does have traditional somm certifications (so not just a server).
For Charlotte, the list actually is pretty well stocked and reasonably priced compared to our typical corporate steakhouses. While I generally agree that the comment about DDC being a new producer is slightly off-putting, given that the restaurant appears to prioritize their wine program as part of the experience, I’d generally give the somm the benefit of the doubt with respect to their own list, even in view of a comment that might make me question their broader knowledge of the wine world outside of their particular focus.
I think that is the baseline expectation for the job, that the somm would know which wine is intended to pair with what food on their menu. But a good somm should also be able to guide the customers’ choice based on the customers’ own preferences and inevitably they’re going to get asked “I like wine from region [xx], what would you recommend that is similar?” quite often. So it helps to have passing familiarity with well-known producers from major regions, even if only theoretically, and DDC isn’t that obscure. It’s not first growth but easily among the top 5 producers within Graves.
I think the situation is most akin to walking into a bookstore with an Evelyn Waugh or a George Elliot book in hand and being asked by the owner if she’s an up-and-coming writer, completely ignoring the Penguin Classics edition cover. No shame if you haven’t read them, but if you’re in the business of selling books, you might have heard of them? Now, maybe you’re a bookstore that specializes in sci-fi literature, and most of your job involves keeping track of and stocking the latest releases from that genre, which is fine. But if you’re able to tell me Dan Simmons’ Hyperion is like Canterbury Tales meets Heart of Darkness but set in space, you’re more likely to sell me some books and I will probably come back to you for more recommendations.
Would you expect a legit somm to know about Michel Lafarge? How would you react if a somm. picked-up a bottle of Lafarge, looked at it for a few seconds, and then asked, “Is this a new producer?” If the Lafarge example isn’t doing it for you, then replace that with Barthod, or Arnoux-Lachaux, or Bouchard, or Robert Groffier, or, or, or … I think those are all fair comparisons for the matter at hand. Does your answer to that question change if producers like Dujac, Amiot, Jouan, Jadot, Leflaive, and d’Angerville are on this particular somm’s list? — because that’s basically the situation Mikko is talking about, but Bdx instead of Burgundy.
Agree with everything you say here. My expectations of sommeliers is extremely low. As long as they know their wines and their menu items, they’ll be as helpful as I need them to be. Everything they may have to offer beyond that simply sees them moving up the Competent and Helpful ladder.
I would think crossing paths with and remembering the name “Domaine de Chevalier” would be in the remedial stages, and probably expected to know more than just the name for someone studying to become a somm.
No one, well, I’ll speak for me…I am not at all offended by the lessening relevance of bordeaux. While there are some exceptions, I’d almost always rather have a great Burgundy than a great Bordeaux. I think what kinda chaps ass sometimes is that you troll this issue. Whether intended or not, there are occasions when I perceive a healthy dose of condescension from you for not only bordeaux, but for those who love or primarily drink bordeaux. Like their choices of wine are completely irrelevant, and so they are irrelevant, and their opinions are irrelevant. Sometimes it comes across like the most not-irrelevant opinion on wine is yours. If someone disagrees, they’re worth, at best, a casual laugh off. If they agree with you, great. I think maybe I’m not alone in that perception, and that it can get folks’ backs up a bit. Maybe I’m off point though.
Onto the merits of your point re the somms: DDC is one of the absolute premier bordeaux blancs. Like top 3 every year. It’s Haut Brion Blanc, DDC, sometimes Smith Haut Lafitte, and then I’d expect a somm to know Y by Yquem. The fact that DDC also makes really good red is another notch up. As I noted in my previous post because of those things (and reasonable price on white and red), I’d expect most somms whose lists have bordeaux to know the wine.
This goes to my next point, but if you’re a somm by trade…i.e. it’s your profession, then I would expect you to have an education in wine, to pursue that education outside your 9-5, and to read and taste widely. One can never have had DDC but still be familiar with the wine. I’ve never had Jayer but am familiar with that wine. So re those other regions…YES! I can probably sit down and list 30 Napa producers, 30 Italian producers, a bunch of Spanish producers (probably not 30 to be honest, but I’ve defo had 30 different spanish producers and would likely recognize them holding the bottle in my hand.
I own zero pet-nats, zero orange wines, maybe 1 or 2 natural wines (champagnes that I probably didnt realize were natty). I have 1 riesling at home. I know zero about Swiss wines. I’ve had maybe 6 bottles of savienneres and can’t even spell it. But were I a somm, I’d be damn sure to learn about those things.
If you know enough to advance the argument you did about my Lafarge comparison not being apt, then my hypothetical was good enough. Your argument evidences an understanding of my question/argument/comparison, because you wouldn’t be able to make your argument absent said understanding.
You’re telling me you wouldn’t be surprised at a somm’s ignorance of Barthod and Groffier if the other producers I mentioned as being on their list were on their list? (Dujac, Amiot, Jouan, Jadot, Leflaive, and d’Angerville. You could add Gouges, Trapet, Christian Moreau, etc etc etc to that list, if you want, but there’s no need because you clearly understand the question.) Part of the relevant context here is some of the Bordeaux that were on this sommelier’s list — some that are significantly lesser-known and of lesser prestige than DdC.
. There’s a reason why Bordeaux sales are consistently dropping.
(adding to 14, 19, 20, limited # tho)
