Hit me with Spanish Red values

[John_Glas]

La Rioja Alta - Alberdi ($20ish)
La Rioja Alta - Ardanza ($30ish)
R. Lopez de Heredia - Cubillo ($25ish)
R. Lopez de Heredia - Bosconia ($35ish)

Always like La Rioja Alta better than Lopez Heredia which maybe need to be aged 20 plus years. The Ardanza is one of my favorite wines under $30.

[Andrew_Ing]

Just got back from Pogos looking for these. Picked up a Black Slate for the first time. Happy to see that mentioned. Also picked up a Contador on sale and Abadia Retuerta.

I’m in a mode now where I will try just about any 2016 from Ribera.

Staples have got to be anything from Lopez.

Costco has a La Rioja Alta Vina Aranza Reserva 2009 for the mid 20s that I will drink all day long and is a great wine for guests.

Wine access has some pretty good spanish wines that are not too expensive. That’s been a good resource for finding new daily drinker spanish wines.

[Guillermo_M]

As a few others I would also highlight wines from Raul Perez. The Ultria St Jacques 2018 is stunningly good. Also wine from the 4 Monos near Madrid made from Grenache are very unique. Very elegant, cool and aromatic.

This is good to hear since I have two ordered bottles of 2018 Ultreia on summer hold.

Where did you order it from please?

I got it at Winemadeeasy.com

Don’t know if they still have any.

[Arv_R]

The last couple of days I’ve been enjoying the 2009 Luis Canas ‘Reserva - Seleccion de la Familia’ [Rioja] which is a quite good Rioja. My dense purplish example only gets better as it breathes. Although on the higher end of alcohol for the region it is not noticeable, and at age 13, the blend of US/French oak has been soaked up well. Most DOCa wines from here tend to be tempranillo – with maybe small slugs of garnacha/mazuelo or even graciano (yuck) added – this is unusual in that its blended with Cabernet Sauvignon instead of local varietals. (another estate, Campillo, is also allowed to do this; there are some allowances in the DO rules). Lots of coconut/Mounds on the nose, with plums and figs on the palate. It’s richly fruited, with balanced acids, and resolved tannins. For those who enjoy the Muga lineup, this is worth trying. I love it, but finding Luis Canas can be tricky - production is modest and importation/distribution seems narrow. My example was brought in by Kysela Pere et Fils, but sometimes Total Wine gets them. Also note that they have a wide range of bottlings; Reserva Familia is different than regular Reserva. If I could find these for 15 EUR (as Ivan does) I’d be delighted; in the US nowadays if one sees this Luis Canas bottling they run $30+ but are worth it. In my ledger, an easy A- with time on the side of this modern styled Rioja. After the first glass, I shifted back to a smaller, machine made stem which reduced my nervousness. The physical bottle is a heavy (696 grams!) deeply punted dark glass out of supermarket magnate Gerard Perse packaging playbook, btw.

PS: curiously, the person who shares the underground cellar next to mine, who is mostly into Burgundies and self imports a barrel or two for himself/friends, has raved about this producer before, mostly falling on my overwhelmed ears. How many oenophiles have heard ‘oh you just have to try this _____ before’ ?

Bodegas Luis Cañas Rioja Reserva Selección de Familia - modern and fresher style Rioja. Prices around here in the Netherlands are about 13/14 euro’s. Tasted the 2009 last week and it is great!

[Mike_Lindauer]

PXL_20220813_004148749.jpg

The last couple of days I’ve been enjoying the 2009 Luis Canas ‘Reserva - Seleccion de la Familia’ [Rioja] which is a quite good Rioja.

Bodegas Luis Cañas Rioja Reserva Selección de Familia - modern and fresher style Rioja. Prices around here in the Netherlands are about 13/14 euro’s. Tasted the 2009 last week and it is great!

I have this in my cellar and it’s lovely.

[John_Glas]

2017 Bodegas Muga Rioja Reserva (Spain, La Rioja, La Rioja Alta, Rioja)

Can get this for around $25 and declassified higher end Muga wines. By far the best Muga Reserva I have ever tasted.

[Markus_S]

Can we stop ‘hitting’ yet? I’m getting tired.

[John_Glas]

Can we stop ‘hitting’ yet? I’m getting tired.

Go to bed!

[Ramon_C]

I may have missed it being posted earlier as I scan-read from the top, but back when I used to buy, Alejandro Fernandez Tinto Pesquera was, I recall, deservedly got credited often as a good Spanish red value.

[Tom_R_W]

Can we stop ‘hitting’ yet? I’m getting tired.

Yeah, it’s so 2015. Wait…

[lleichtman]

Spain is always a good value. Only a few Ribieras are expensive.

[Ian_Sutton]

@Ron Erickson

Permanently ruined. I can not even glance after the days of Sierra Carche dog show.

Sierra Carche is great wine. As I recall, one of the fat guys at the Wine Advocate drank some while taking an all expenses paid hot air balloon trip with Pancho Campo, 3 hookers, an entire Cinco Jotas jamon iberico de bellota, and an ounce of blow, or stumbling haphazardly with the bulls in Pamplona with Pancho Campo and a suitcase full of Euros he found abandoned after the bulls ran by. I forget which. Anyway, he loved the wine and gave it 103 points. I think they bottle it as El Nido now.

those were the days

[Arv_R]

Can we stop ‘hitting’ yet? I’m getting tired.

Pat Benatar (80’s rocker) feels the same way to wit:

Pat Benatar will no longer perform her song Hit Me With Your Best Shot

[A_Tzikas]

Do not overlook Rioja’s neighbor, Ribera del Duero. Both tilt towards tempranillo, but soils are different, and RdD vineyards are at higher altitudes. My 2 cents - RdD reds are more intense, darker fruits (cherries, blackberries, cassis), and less oak. Some nice blends using CS, Merlot or Malbec.

[Guillermo_M]

Do not overlook Rioja’s neighbor, Ribera del Duero. Both tilt towards tempranillo, but soils are different, and RdD vineyards are at higher altitudes. My 2 cents - RdD reds are more intense, darker fruits (cherries, blackberries, cassis), and less oak. Some nice blends using CS, Merlot or Malbec.

IMO, RdD is better than Rioja at almost any price point.

[Mike_Lindauer]

Do not overlook Rioja’s neighbor, Ribera del Duero. Both tilt towards tempranillo, but soils are different, and RdD vineyards are at higher altitudes. My 2 cents - RdD reds are more intense, darker fruits (cherries, blackberries, cassis), and less oak. Some nice blends using CS, Merlot or Malbec.

IMO, RdD is better than Rioja at almost any price point.

Absolutely agree!

[Arv_R]

Do not overlook Rioja’s neighbor, Ribera del Duero. Both tilt towards tempranillo, but soils are different, and RdD vineyards are at higher altitudes. My 2 cents - RdD reds are more intense, darker fruits (cherries, blackberries, cassis), and less oak. Some nice blends using CS, Merlot or Malbec.

IMO, RdD is better than Rioja at almost any price point.

Hmmm. I’m hard pressed to think of a lighter / finesse RdD* if one is looking for that, while at least in Rioja there are lots of those older school traditional houses offering that style. I do love Hacienda Monasterio from the Ribera…but would consider it a big, full bodied plumper.

• this might be a US import issue

[Guillermo_M]

Do not overlook Rioja’s neighbor, Ribera del Duero. Both tilt towards tempranillo, but soils are different, and RdD vineyards are at higher altitudes. My 2 cents - RdD reds are more intense, darker fruits (cherries, blackberries, cassis), and less oak. Some nice blends using CS, Merlot or Malbec.

IMO, RdD is better than Rioja at almost any price point.

Hmmm. I’m hard pressed to think of a lighter / finesse RdD* if one is looking for that, while at least in Rioja there are lots of those older school traditional houses offering that style. I do love Hacienda Monasterio from the Ribera…but would consider it a big, full bodied plumper.

• this might be a US import issue

There are emotional/historical reasons for me too.

Spanish wines are very common in Puerto Rico where I grew up and lived for a long time. In my mind there is an almost automatic association of Rioja with too much wood.

I couldn’t tell you how many bottles of Hacienda Monasterio, Emilio Moro, Pesquera, Flor de Pingus, Pago de los Capellanes, Pago de Carraovejas, Protos, Arzuaga, Aalto and even Viña Mayor I’ve had. Not the higher end ones like Emilio Moro Malleolus, the basic crianzas or standard reservas. I associate them with new Spain, cool Spain, even if Bierzo or Priorat are trendier. And it affects my enjoyment. They’re all big wines and I haven’t had them regularly in over a decade, but the emotional aspect is still there.

In Rioja I think Marqués de Cáceres which used to smell like a cedar-lined closet (maybe it’s better now). I associate it with old Spain, dusty Spain, jabones Maja Spain. And so it affects my enjoyment.

[Joseph_Grassa]

Missing some of the replies since the switch but luckily I saved this reply.

@"Guillermo M" post_id=3566158 time=1660571655 user_id=35416

@"Joseph Grassa" post_id=3566154 time=1660570516 user_id=29132

@"Guillermo M" post_id=3566143 time=1660568605 user_id=35416

Am I right in recalling that the Rioja DOC rules are a big part of the oak problem and that RdD doesn’t have such strict rules?

I don’t think so actually, but I am not sure if there are barrel size requirements in RdD or if either has requirements on new vs old barrels. As far as I know both RdD and Rioja have the same time requirements though.

Crianza - 2 years (at least 1 in oak)
Reserva - 3 years (at least 1 in oak)
Gran Reserva - 5 years (at least 2 in oak)

*I think they have also recently (in 2018) added a minimum portion of the time to be aged in the bottle. (I think 6 months for Reserva and Gran Reserva but I am not sure.) Perhaps they are trying to prevent the overoaking.

Rioja requires 225L barrels and I think RdD does too, but I am not 100% sure.

I would have to bet that many are aged in oak for much more than the minimum time though. The oak sensations for most Reserva and Gran Reserva seem too strong imo to be just 1 or 2 years respectively, especially if it is new oak.

It’s the new American oak they use. They don’t use French. American is what they could get when Rioja started because France used up its own production, with I guess some for Italy (or maybe there were political reasons I don’t recall). That’s part of the issue.

Checks out so far on the French vs American. I checked through a few of my preferred producers tech sheets. Seems like a mix of where the barrels are from and how long they are aging them in barrels. Seems like RdD also maybe more prone to doing there own thing and not caring about putting Reserva on the label? A bit anecdotal, but I can only think of 2 RdD producers that I follow a bit that make Reservas while it is reversed in Rioja and I own wines from only 3 producers that don’t make a Reserva.

2010 LRA Adanza Reserva - American Oak for 3 years (the Garnacha was only 2.5 years)
2007 LRA 904 Gran Reserva - American Oak for 4 years (4 year old barrels)

2008 LdH Tondonia Reserva - 6 years in the barrels

2016 Aalto - 17 months 50% new French & American oak

Pingus PSI (from Rare Wine no vintage stated) - 18 months in a mix of cement tanks, and old barriques and large barrels.

2017 Hacienda Monasterio Reserva - 40% new Allier French oak Barrel for 16 months

[JulianEldridge]

My wife and I are fond of Bodegas Palacios Remondo “La Montesa”, which is mostly garnacha(unusual for a Rioja, I think). While it’s a fantastic wine, quite elegant and bright and linear–and a great QPR–it will also always carry high sentimental value for us: during the early days of the pandemic, we couldn’t get into our offsite storage, since it wasn’t an ‘essential business’, and so we were caught without adequate wine reserves in the house; luckily, Costco (which was allowed to remain open) had this on their shelves, and it got us through those early days until the storage facility was allowed to reopen.