Hermitage vs Cote Rotie

[Tom_Moore]

I know this area can get REALLY expensive. What are some good producers that offer value so I can dive in?
Recently tried this wine and absolutely loved it -
2008 Cédric Parpette Côte-Rôtie Le Montmain (France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie)
A burgundy lovers syrah. Black pepper, cassis and power in reserve. Very restrained at this point but absolutely perfect pairing with slow cooked lamb with cannellini beans. Aromatics galore and sweet raspberry and earth on palate. Love it.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

@Gerhard P.

@John S

Hi Al,

Last I heard nobody did that in practice. Anyone you know do the blend or ever tried one?
I’ve always wanted to but never found one…

CR is usually more perfumed, more fragrant, with hints of black olives, bacon and smoked meat, more raspberries than cherries, more violets than roses, more spices than herbs - and usually a more perceptible acidity (depending on the vintage).

H usually shows less fragrant, more compact, more solid, with more green (than black) olives, more sour cherries, more mushrooms, more bloody meat, often hints of red (blood) oranges, more herbs than (exotic) spices … more perceptable tannin than acidity (depending …)
Over the time I´d say that H is definitely more ageworthy than CR, and in consequence less accessable in its youth …


M preferences?
CR with 5 to 15/20 years, H with 15 to 30+ years.

Good descriptor as a gross generality, as I remember from my daze of being very interested in the Rhone. I never really got into CR, because I found them to be more “Southern Rhone” like than Hermitages, including more prominent alcohol on the finish. (IN the late '89s and early '90s, I stopped buyin Chateauneuf because they were so alcoholic; I don’t like that in a wine.) I’m not suggesting that CR is like Chateauneuf…just vs. Hermitage, I’ve always felt it lacked a certain refinement/subtlty/ Burgundian character ( )…Looking at the “roasted slopes”, it’s no wonder, with all the sunshine and heat they get…and probably lack of moisture). And, I never really liked that “bacon” I usually found in them.

That is my impression, FWIW…in response to the query that started the thread. I don’t have lots of recent experience…but, have rarely had a Hermitage that I didn’t like (esp. Chave, of course) and have rarely had a CR that really wowed me (though I did have a Georges Vernay CR '98 last year that I really liked.) Admittedly, a gross generalization…and not based on much substance relative to some opinions on this, I’d guess.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Tom Moore

I know this area can get REALLY expensive. What are some good producers that offer value so I can dive in?
…

Pierre Gaillard in CR.

[Gerhard_P]

@Tom Moore

I know this area can get REALLY expensive. What are some good producers that offer value so I can dive in?

Henri GALLET - a rather traditional producer which should be available at a decent price (but no idea where in the US).

[Robert_Sand]

@Robert Sand

Gerhard, you nailed it with your description!
I just had a Rostaing La Landonne 2006: black olvies, more black olives, dark berries, smoked bacon, but also exotic floral notes and spices. Very elegant and not closed at all, but very youthful and persisting, with excellent grip and long aftertaste, in need of another 3-5 years cellaring.

I will open an Hermitage soon to compare … have to think about which one …

here in contrast my TN of an Hermitage on Sat.:
Hermitage Colombier 2006: medium purple red, rather refined nose of red berries and sour cherries, sweet fruit intermingled with some herbal green elements, rather compact with present structure and noticable oak, not very fragrant, medium weight, but good persistence on the palate, should be better in 4-5 years, but not a bad company for lamb.
(not the most typical Hermitage, slightly modern style, but good)

[ekovitch]

@John S

But to generalize the wines of Hermitage are more masculine/brawny while those of the Cote more feminine.

+1 for the quick summary.

But generalizations are just that.

Saturday night I had a 1995 Cave de Tain Hermitage and a 1999 Guigal Brune et Blonde Cote Rotie. Both were popped and poured. The CR was still quite closed, but you could tell it had more depth and structure. The Hermitage was drinking perfectly probably at the apogee of its aging curve. It was far more open, a beautiful nose and wonderful balance. However, as a Hermitage, it was not a great wine compared to say a Chave, Jaboulet, or single vineyard Chapoutier. In another 5-10 years (?) the Guigal should surpass it in drinking enjoyment, but definitely not at this time.

[Gerhard_P]

@ekovitch

Saturday night I had a 1995 Cave de Tain Hermitage and a 1999 Guigal Brune et Blonde Cote Rotie. Both were popped and poured. The CR was still quite closed, but you could tell it had more depth and structure. The Hermitage was drinking perfectly probably at the apogee of its aging curve. It was far more open, a beautiful nose and wonderful balance. However, as a Hermitage, it was not a great wine compared to say a Chave, Jaboulet, or single vineyard Chapoutier. In another 5-10 years (?) the Guigal should surpass it in drinking enjoyment, but definitely not at this time.

One definitely has to take into account also

• vintage
• producer
• souce of grapes/wine

I don´t know this particular Cave de Tain-vintage, but this is a quite huge cooperative where grapes or wines from very different producers are collected. The quality has never been exciting IMHO, I would call it “correct”.
Guigal on the other hand buys grapes from selected producers who have to deliver a certain quality - and he is THE top-producer in CR.

1999 is definitely also a strong great vintage, while 1995 is good to very good, but not great.
Both simply shows …

[ekovitch]

@Gerhard P.

Both simply shows …

Agree completely.