I started to really appreciate wine about 18 months ago. During this time I realized that my favorite wine is a napa cab. And so far my favorite napa cab is been the 2009 Caymus which could be found in grocery stores for $60/bottle.
Here is why I like this wine: It’s sweet but not fruit sweet… more like “breakfast sweet” with vanilla (my favorite part), buttery cinnamon toast, and chocolate. Although I don’t have a glass in front of me I picture it to taste “brown” (breakfast) vs “purple” (like a dark Syrah) or “red” (like a pinot). It feels soft in my mouth and in my stomach.
My local wine retailer detests the stuff as “too oaky” but I’m embarrassed to say that I am not at the level where I can detect or appreciate the oak level in a wine. Furthermore people sometimes describe wines as “complex” which I have yet to experience. I also don’t really know what is a “long finish”.
So my question:
Can you recommend some wines for me to try? Ideally out of this I will discover a “Caymus killer” that I like more and costs less. Lucky for me I don’t understand concepts such as “too oaky”, “long finish”, or “complex” so that presumably will open the door for some cheaper wine for me to find.
Drink what you like, first and foremost. Caymus along with silver oak and others are polarizing wines. For a nice grocery store wine with nice napa cab characteristics go for Educated Guess, the price is right.
BTW your palate will change so don’t get wed to any producer or varietal.
Based on your first two threads, you sound like a 20 something, early 30 something getting into wine. Carrie and I were Silver Oak groupies starting in 1978, when I was 28. I too liked the Caymus Cab starting in the 90’s. Our Silver Oak backup was Jordan and our daily drinker was Estancia Cab, bought at Safeway on the 6 or 12 bottle discount. Prices then were $39 Silver Oak; $27 Jordan; $12 Estancia. I also bought Geyser Peak Reserve Alexander, $21. All the wines were from Alexander Valley, so we chased the terroir. Duckhorn 3 palms Merlot was another backup to the Silver Oak, so you might not want to limit the spectrum to Cab alone.
Ask your local retailer what else he detests as overoaked or tell him YOU like Caymus and want something similar. Can’t believe he wasn’t attentive to your preference in wine. A lot depends on what’s available in your area. Educated Guess is a good suggestion. Gott, Slingshot, Fisticuffs, Sean Minor, Chappellet Signature, Darioush Caravan, Buccella Mica, ACV Prologue, Estancia are others to try. There are some Cabs from South America that will surprise you as well as some from Australia, especially Australia. Washington Cab blends give you double the value for the price.
For $60, you can buy several bottles of mid-range non-Napa Cabs. I don’t really know the style of Caymus’ entry level Cab, though it sounds fairly rich and ‘new world’ in style. At this stage it’s worth it to try different regions to see what you may like.
Alexander Valley Vineyards Cab runs $15-$20 and strikes me as a well-made, varietally accurate wine when I’ve tried it. Something like Justin Vineyards Cab in the $20-$25 range might be worth a try as well as I recall it being fairly ripe and oaky. Then there are Chilean entries like Santa Rita Medella Real Cab in the $15-$20 range. Usually plenty of oak and fruit are present in Chilean entries, though cheaper ones can be quite vegetal. Going up in price with Chile often means more jammy fruit, more extraction, and more sleek oak influence.
I wouldn’t say any of these are mind-blowing–you get what you pay for. But they might hit the spot or point you to regions you could like. Given the economics involved, if for $60 you get for your taste two duds and one winner you have come out OK compared to the Caymus price point.
For my palate, anything that doesn’t smell and taste like the lumber aisle at Home Depot is a “Caymus Killer.”
That being said, try the Juan Gil 18 Meses, or Orin Swift Papillon.
I’d suggest Honig for $30-35 and Buehler Napa for around $20 for an everday wine. Both should be widely available. Don’t draw any firm conclusions as some have already said your palate will change for sure.
I’d also find as many oppty’s to taste as you can. Many local retailers have tastings, wine dinner’s etc. Tasting a wide variety will help you dial in on what you like and give you broader exposure.
The problem with replacing a $60 wine is not really saving money when you settle for $50 wines, and is it really worth $10 to settle? Let’s face it; $50 is a lot of money.
I would concentrate on the $30 range. This way it would be something like half price. I would seek out the Snowden Ranch, Round Pond Napa and Hardin ($22) if I were you. I would watch WineBid for deals on some of the many names you see thrown around here in the Napa Cab threads. Last night I grabbed a 2002 St. Helena Winery Sympha Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon, which is a Mark Herold wine that sold for upwards of $100 when released, for $40. I don’t know why I actually give this advice as the last thing I need is more competition.
In response to your other thread I just want to add: Asking strangers to give you names of wines to amass a collection (I want to buy a couple cases worth of napa cab at ~40-60/bottle) is doing such an injustice to yourself. Tasting, exploring and actually figuring out for yourself is at least 80% of the fun—and it’s a ride worth enjoying. Leave the mass purchases for un-tasted wines that might never be enjoyed for the stupid rich with more money than sense. Just my 3 cents.
Join a local tasting group. not sure where you are located, but there must be something locally available. The key is get to taste as many wines as possible.
Oh yeah, change your retailer. Any retailer who tells you that he detests something you are singing praise for is not the guy I would want to give my hard earned dollars for.
Welcome to the board. there is some awesome info here if you spend the time and find out what members here are loving; this is great info once you figure out which members have a similar palate to yours.
First off, it sounds [no pun intended] as though you’re describing [u]Synesthesia[/u].
I get Synesthesia in spades - I tend to remember the greatest wines I’ve ever tried, not for how they tasted, but for how they looked.
Anyway, if you’re seeking “brown” at a much more affordable pricepoint, then I strongly recommend that you look north to Washington State, at a winery like [u]Powers[/u], and especially at the work which they are doing with the Champoux vineyard.
And if you can do without the “sweet”, then you might look for something from Margaux, like [u]Brane-Cantenac[/u] [particularly from a “cold” or “off” vintage, when it won’t cost nearly as much].
I was in your position until about 2 or 3 years ago before getting into other styles. Here are some common Napa cab producers that helped me sort things out:
Frog’s Leap
Groth
Peju
Pine Ridge
Montelena
Provenance
For something a little more complex I’d recommend BV’s Tapestry. I definitely agree with the other post about Alexander Valley Vineyards’ cab - good call! Don’t be afraid to explore other regions/ varietals. There was a time I thought I’d never have any interest in anything but California cabs but now I rarely drink them. Enjoy!
Thank you all for the replies. All producer recommendations went into my wine spreadsheet!
Randy: I’m 35 and yes it is time to experiment… but how can you experiment when there are thousands!?
Mike: I need to join a local tasting group. If there is such a thing then… problem solved! I updated my profile with my location: Santa Barbara, CA. I’ll look around this site for more info about groups.
I agree with Don in that I like this wine more than the Caymus and it is much cheaper. However, it does not have the sweetness requested. It is a totally different style, IMHO, than Caymus. So, I agree with Don that this is something to try as an alternative. Gets you to see a top quality wine at a reasonable price from a highly respected winery that would provide a different style of Cabernet.
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Just my 3 cents.