I love this! That is how importers should work! We do the same for our producers
And to be perfectly clear. As per the email- the Riesling is from a collection we purchased. Not from an importer or agent or retail store
That wasn’t directed at you Thatcher. You do you, I have no issue with it, it’s just business. I have put more stuff in a basket on your site than I can recall eslewhere. Just gotta hit buy button.
(Not sure if this was directed at me)
Wow what a turn this thread has made.
I appreciate Thatcher’s transparency in his business. Well made website, clear order status/history, easy payment methods (with a 5% wb discount!)…
Each time i ask a question/ sends an email, Thatcher/someone on his team sends back a courteous response and helps out where they can.
Wine is offered at the price it is… i like and buy what i want… i leave and disregard what i don’t.
no pressure for the most part to ‘support the shop’ just to ‘buy the one rare btl’. Granted i know i’m not offered the rarest of cherry all the time (b/c i know folks who are ;)) but that’s ok, the people who buy more get more, nothing unfair about it.
At least i’m not offered a list, and when i submit a request, i’m told i’m not his most important/loved customers, so i’m not a customer that needs to be sold wine to… 
Jokes aside - I have bought from panzer since 10+ years ago… other than the extreme cherries, he’s been quite helpful as well. I feel like this ‘calling out’ between two competitors is just unnecessary and frankly a pretty bad look. Most people on here who have dealt with either or both can probably make their own decisions and vote with their pocket books.
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thanks for that!
And not at all. Just being clear! A lot of people seem to know what they are talking about and how the grey market works but very few do
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I don’t think that Thatcher has called me out at all.
I have aggressively called him out, and am fine with the look.
I am not alive to please everyone, and don’t fear people not liking me for criticizing someone that they may like or support. I am not here for the bro club, fan boy circle jerk.
When people are getting to know me, I will tell them that I can at times be obnoxiously self-righteous, so I am self-aware.
I’m still waiting for that PM with his phone # to talk about his ethics and his supply chain, which he seems to have been happy to talk about…
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I’m curious about the animus. Is TBB competitive with importers like you who buy directly from producers, rather than sourcing elsewhere in the retail chain? What am I missing?
I buy a little now and then from both of you.
Ah, I see now.
I disagree here. Once the producers sell the wine, what happens to it after in terms of resale is in no way unethical pissing on the will of the producers.
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I don’t love this.
Seems like plain cognitive dissonance/hypocrisy, unless i’m misreading things.
For your own sanctioned producers (the ones who choose you to represent them), you seek to shut down avenues to gray market wines.
And for the rest of the wine world, anything goes?
Reselling older bottles and private collections is not something I have an issue with.
It is aggressively scavenging for new release wines from the gray market that I take issue with.
When “importers” in America buy from German/Danish/English/Dutch/Swiss/French etc retailers/restaurants/importers who have agreed with producers to sell wine only in their own territories, with all parties involved knowing that such sale to the American market is NOT what the grower wants and has asked them specifically not to do that, that is pissing on the will of the growers, to me, and is dishonest and unethical.
Seems pretty simple to me.
My least favorite are producers that get upset when people resell their wine… but then send it directly to acker for auction 
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I miss the days of cases of Liger…then nada.
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Agreed, with the emphasis on the ‘greed’.
why are producers so discriminatory against Americans?
They sell wines to german/danish/dutch/swiss/etc retailers/restaurants and they have to specifically AGREE to NOT sell to US? what do they have against Americans?
if they don’t like the german/dutch people profiting off resale. raise prices on them…
they control the first tier pricing right? why are they trying to manipulate a free market economy after that?
I think this has more to do with regional contracts
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I think theyre trying to spread product out (diversify the customer base), not necessarily telling Americans to fu k off
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Just chiming in here from Jeju airport with a late flight to say thank you all for this Live Entertainment 
Well, simple solution would be to mark pricing to spot market. Which of course would be self-defeating, because the clearing price is always lower than the odd gray market sale. Producers thrive on spot sales at high prices to sell through their annual product. As an authorized importer/retailer, I understand that you don’t like it. But you are hostile to the wrong people.
It is not only to America.
It is to Hong Kong, Israel, Singapore, you name it.
We just happen to be on an American wine chat board talking about the American market.
I am American.
Thatcher is American.
Almost all producers want their chosen partners to not mess with other country’s markets. It is destabilizing.
It is at once complicated and simple.
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I have to admit a distaste for trolling. The internet is a fantastic place to say some pretty mean things “anonymously”, even if your handle is public. Can we reset this dialogue please.
I’ve used Thatcher and his team for a number of purchases, and their pricing is some of the best I’ve been able to find (at least for what I am buying). I think it perfectly acceptable to say “I am not a fan of…”, or “I had a bad experience with…”, but this thread drift has gone next level and is the kind of thing that turns off an entire community.
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You gotta educate me on the vocab. I’m guessing some finance guy lingo that I don’t know.
Mark pricing to spot market?
Clearing price?
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Ok. .trying to understand the math… and no expert at all so bare with me.
So a winery sells to Danish importer/market for $100 (euro equivalent)… and also sells to American importer/market for $100…
How can I buy from a danish importer for all that much less than someone else who is buying from american importer…
Unless winery is selling to Danish importer for substantially less than what he sells to the US market for? in which case… why is that fair? and if they eliminated that imbalance, doesn’t the arbitrage that is the gray market disappear?
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