Maybe this has been covered in an older thread, but just glanced through Vinous and read some of the notes on Gingondas (I’m not a huge fan of Southern Rhone but was curious) and looked at the ‘release’ pricing for some of the wine Cosme, Wtf? $158 release price.
Now I know that these aren’t the real prices and it is Cosme (ridiculously expensive) but they are probably in the ballpark… it looks like Gigondas is as expensive as CNP…
I remember buying Cosme for $10 back in the day and Gigondas was a stellar value… not trying to play the ‘I remember game’ but the pricing is absurd…
The 2007 vintage seems to have been a turning point for Gigondas, the tone of the critics at the time was that Gigondas had arrived, and was producing wines to rival CdP (and they were some extremely impressive wines, no doubt about that), and since then prices have never been quite the same. But I think Gigondas was always more of CdP’s alter ego than its understudy, and we were probably just lucky that they flew under the radar for so long.
Interesting, I was (15 years ago) a huge CNP fan, traveled the region, drank the wines all the time and had 20+ cases, I had always loved Gigondas, Santa Duc was my jam back then and the wines were delicious. Then came 03’ and I now loathe the wines, too rich and alcoholic for me…
Since, I haven’t followed the market, I just have no interest in the wines but was curious when I read the headline of Vinous, interesting to see Josh’s take on where the wines are at.
As delicious and gulpable as I remember those wines being, I just can’t understand the + $100 mark for 99% of Southern Rhone wines, maybe my bias is showing…
Had 2 2001 Santa Duc Gigondases recently and boy did they age well. Not interested in buying more but glad I had some left. Somewhere between $15-$20 I paid.
The St Cosme Hominus Fide and Les Cloux are “tres cher”, never had them so can’t attest to the quality but they get boucoup high points from “they in the know”. I’ve liked the lower end wines including the 100% syrah CdR but I’ll pass on the expensive Gigondas.
Barroul (St. Cosme) has the great benefit, and burden, of wonderful and historic vintages. Some have been in his family since the late 1500s and Le Poste has original vines from the 1870 post-phyloxerra plantings. I think he fell prey to the Parker/Cambie model of creating luxury, single-vineyard cuvees, later picking and more modern-styling, in addition to perhaps spreading himself too thin with a negotiant line. The shark was jumped in the 2007 vintage. That’s when Barroul separated out the Le Poste and La Claux vineyards from the Hominis Fides blend. At the time, they were $50 each, then Parker anointed the Hominis Fides with a 100 rating, which I think was the first Gigondas so bestowed.
You can still get the 2015 vintages from just over $100 (which still ain’t cheap). Frankly, if you like this modern style of Gigondas, get the base bottling or the Cuvee Valbelle, both under 1/3 of what you are citing. I still think the Les Deux Albion CDR is his better bottling for enjoyment, it’s a syrah-based CDR blend, I just grabbed some. Don’t buy any of the Gigondas cuvees since 2007.
Same problem as with Châteauneuf today. Prices escalated so far, so fast. At least anecdotally, my understanding is that the market is correspondingly sluggish compared to five or six years ago. Perhaps that’s just in the UK though.
You can still get very good Gigondas for between $25 and $30. Think Gour de Chaulé, Raspail Ay, and St. Damien (a Cambie wine–go figure). I have always found even the basic cuvee of St. Cosme to be a wine like beverage, at least since the 00 vintage and his upper cuvees (well I’ve only tasted a couple of them a couple of times) are like the upper cuvees of Clos St. Jean. They are worth the price to some people and the rest of us don’t have to care.
I will add one name currently not available in the US market, d’Ourea. His Gigondas is very distinctive and ultra traditional. It has made brief appearances here on Rimmerman, but, at least according to the winemaker this past Spring, it currently has no importer. I’m hoping that some importer will read this and get on the stick. He also makes a great Vacqueyras.
The Cosme special cuvees are rare and get very high scores - hence the pricing (just like any wines getting 98-100pts) but I think otherwise the other Cosme bottlings are much more in line with higher end Gigondas. I have tried all three and they are very good, high quality wines that deserve similar pricing to the cuvee CdPs in my opinion.
True of a lot of Vacqueyras, but by no means all. The obvious, but not really indicative, exception would be Chateau des Tours. But the basic cuvee of Sang des Cailloux also ages well and the Cuvee Lopy even longer. Domaine les Garrigues also goes to 12-15 without being out of breath. Except for Chateau des Tours, none of these are 20-25 year wines, but neither are many Gigondas.
Absolutely - Domaine de Durban, Domaine de la Tourade, Bertrand Stehelin, and Domaine Font-Sane (one of my very favorite Gigondas producers) still hovers in the under $30.00 range -
I’m lucky, in that it’s shockingly frequent that I’ll prefer a standard ‘typical’ bottling over a super-prestige lusciously oaked wine made from especially ripe grapes. It shouldn’t happen as often as it does, but I’m not complaining.
St. Cosme is like other high scorers, prices increased. Like many I bought the luxury cuvees for $29 to $45 before 2007, even got 2007 Hominis Fides for $45. Havent bought since at that level but Valbelle is good value.
Agree with Robert, I used to love buying Deux Albion mags for $25 always delivered and guests loved them.
Much like Cornas today, you have to search a lot more for value, damn the internet!
That’s funny I was maybe going to asterisk my comment and mention that Sang des Cailloux could run longer. Although I did have a sort of tired 1990 of theirs maybe at age 15ish. I only have one des Tours and have not yet tried it – anything with the Rayas halo is a little hard to find in the US.
I had a really cloying 2007 Vacqueryas earlier this summer.
Isn’t this true of ‘most regions’ these days? As more folks read boards like these and more brands become ‘championed’ by specific somms or store owners, the chance of ‘keeping gems hidden’ seems less and less likely moving forward . . .
If someone were to pick him up, do you think the wines would still be affordable? It seems like importers often look at what the market will bear for their pricing ratherthan the price they pay per bottle.
Unless D’Ouréa has just gotten a bundle of market moving reviews, I assume the price in the U.S. will be determined as these things usually are by the price the importer has to pay for his wine, the exchange rate and the natural price rise due to the three schnook system of the U.S. wine market. Based on what he charges at the domaine compared to what others charge at the domaine, his Gigondas would not be inexpensive (nearer $40 than $30, but his Vacqueyras could come in at around $25-$30 (less if the importer tries to market it aggressively). The wines are worth it.
