GG's - What to drink young and what to age

A_Kohse · May 21, 2013, 11:10pm

Isn’t he an independent contractor like Galloni was? Not sure if this is splitting hairs, as I’m not a lawyer, but if he is, would Parker have any say in where or what he could post?

David_Bu3ker · May 21, 2013, 11:35pm

They recently changed employment models

A_Kohse · May 21, 2013, 11:45pm

That would make sense given the recent legal issues.

Eric_Ifune · May 22, 2013, 12:15am

Schildknecht still writes for “The World of Fine Wine.”

David_Bu3ker · May 22, 2013, 12:22am

Among other publications. Do you really think his WA employer would want him here? Really?

David_Bu3ker · May 22, 2013, 1:32am

Back to the wine, a 2005 Heymann-Lowenstein Laubach Erste Lage was quite delicious tonight. Not an actual GG, but a real pleasure in the “harmoniously dry” category.

Jeff_Johannsmeyer · May 22, 2013, 2:07am

Just to name a producer other than Keller, from a region less known for Trocken…

The Robert Weil trockens are actually surprisingly good considering how well known the estate is for Pradikat wines.

The Kiedrich Klosterberg (not a GG) drinks quite well young, as might be expected given its modest price and credentials. Fairly simple, but correct and food friendly. A good intro to dry riesling for many, I think.

The Kiedricher Grafenberg GG, however is typically much more tight when young. Still good young, but definitely in need of 5-7 years to show to expectations.

Martin_Zwick · May 22, 2013, 9:46am

Interesting topic…

Not easy to start, as I had the luck to drink soo many aged GGs. Let me start with a true revelation of the agebility of Dry Riesling in 2009. It was tasting at the estate Kühling-Gillot with Jancis Robinson&David Schildknecht and all the wines came from the famous collector Frackenpohl. Dry german Riesling from 1990 to 2001 against France&Austria. Here are the wines (in german!)

http://talk-about-wine.de/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5364

1990 was really not worth to mention in case of german dry Riesling (Koehler-Ruprecht “R” was not in this flight), but the second flight with 1993 was clearly a quantum jump. Such fine Spätlese trocken/Auslese trocken from Leitz, Müller-Catoir, Breuer, Kühling-Gillot. Then the third flight with 1998 which showed another improvement with such amazing Rieslings like 1998 Künstler “Hölle” Auslese trocken and the “G” from Keller. But the true revelation was the fourth flight with 2001 and the german Rieslings easily outperformed the austrian Riesling counterparts. Stunning performance in case of freshness, clarity, youth and vibrating minerality by Emrich-Schönleber, Bürklin-Wolf, Wittmann etc.

Here my impressions in the last years region by region:

Pfalz

Rebholz: Last year I had a mind-blowing 2001"Kastanienbusch" and also several times a wonderful 2001 “im Sonnenschein”. Fair to say also several disappointing experience with 2005&2006 etc. My recommendation is to wait 10 years and then drink. Between could be very disappointing.

Bürkling-Wolf: The master of aged dry Riesling in the Pfalz. One of my best dry Riesling ever tasted 1999 “Pechstein”. Mind-blowing experience. Also the 2001s, 2003, 2005 etc. always wonderful drinking experience.

Koehler-Ruprecht: The pioneer of Dry Riesling. 1990 Saumagen R is the Holy Grail of Dry Riesling. Very special dry Riesling and also a lot of bottle variation. 1998 Saumagen R is magic. Same with 1996. And 2004 a potential 100pts. wine.

Nahe

Emrich-Schönleber: Stunning aged dry Riesling with 2001 “Halenberg” Auslese trocken. You could buy blind any GG from the estate. They age great and need age.

Schäfer-Fröhlich: I haven´t had not many aged versions. The last time was last autumn with 2008 “Felseneck” GG. Need 10-15 more years. I thing in general the GGs from Tim Fröhlich need time.

Dönnhoff: A rocking 2005 “Dellchen” GG in 2011.

Rheinhessen

Keller: The last vertical of Hubacker and G-Max clearly demonstrated the Number 1 position of Keller in case of dry Riesling and the agebility of the GGs. 2004 was a baby and 2001&2002 such fresh. More: Keller HUBACKER 2001 - 2010 - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

Wittmann: I prefer them rather younger. 2001 Morstein is rocking. Unfortunately I had several aged 2002 Wittmann GGs from a not perfect cellar or bottle variation.

Wagner-Stempel: Two years ago I tasted a stunning fresh&outstanding 2002 Heerkretz and a lovely 2002 Öllberg. Need aging.

Rheingau

Künstler: I tasted several great dry bottles from the 90s.

J.B. Becker: An estate worth to discover. A few weeks a fresh 1992 Kabinett trocken and rocking 1992 “Walkenberg” Spätlese trocken 2-3 years ago.

Here an interesting 2005 GG-Tasting two years ago: Big Riesling Tasting of the vintage 2005 - UPDATE - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

A view by Panos Kakaviatos: Top German Rieslings from the 2005 vintage: 22 wines tasted blind – Connections to Wine

In general, the vintages 2001&2002 + 2004&2008&2010 and it looks like 2012 too are vintages to put the bottles in the darkest corner of your cellar.
Final word, I have to mention how important is to have a good&cold cellar. The colder the better.

Cheers,
Martin

Robert_Dentice · May 22, 2013, 10:12am

Thanks Martin that was cool to read.

Does anyone know (if any) the differences in winegrowing/winemaking protocols for a Auslese Trocken and a GG.

Charlie_Gierling · May 22, 2013, 12:53pm

Koehler-Ruprecht made some of the best dry Rieslings ever, but some of his wines are not very good. My palate and budget says: buy it only if you can taste it! Maybe this is worth a look:

Endre_Stokke · May 22, 2013, 1:24pm

Thank you for your reply.

I actually just went to a riesling tasting where K-R brought many of his wines. Nothing older than 2004, but he did bring the 2007 Auslese trocken R and several Spätlese trocken R/RR, as well as plenty of halbtrockens, kabinetts and gewurztraminer. I really liked the auslese R, but I found that the rest of them seemed a bit too plump and ripe in style.

Markus Molitor was also there, and he sure did make some great wine in 2011. Especially his three-star ausleses.

Lyle_Fass · May 22, 2013, 4:05pm

Bill H o o p e r:

The wine does have the last say, but the three main factors that I see (after vintage) are:

#1 Terroir: If you look at the three top villages in the Pfälzer Mittelhaardt (Forst, Wachenheim, and Deidesheim), you will quickly see that not all GGs are created equal. The Deidesheim Crus tend to be primarily sandstone (Buntsandstein) and are lighter with more citrus fruit, and snappy, racier acidity. The aromas are friendly and very forward. Sandstone warms up quickly and has excellent drainage properties, keeping the berries small (but also limiting available nutrients), and the grapes have rather thin skins, making wines with potentially less complexity and staying power. Though they tend to be the most impressive when young.

The heavier Limestone soils (Muschelkalk) of Wachenheim help to buffer acidity but make wines that taste more acidic, perhaps partially because the wines suggest more mineral, rocky, salty flavors, (the most mineral in the region for many tasters). These wines can be very long-lived, very complex because of the fruit/mineral tension, and also the most chiseled or defined.

Forst, with all of its volcanic Basalt soils makes some of the most complete and exotically flavored wines in Germany. Spices (cinnamon, ginger, allspice), stone-fruit, passion-fruit, and outrageous floral aromas are the hall-mark of Riesling grown on Basalt. The vines want for nothing, as Basalt is extremely mineral-rich and (relatively) quickly breaks down into a clay that holds water and nutrients exceptionally. The grape-skins are thick (protecting against botrytis in most years, but the available water can cause bursting in very wet years). As you move north from the Kirchenstück (which has the highest proportion of Basalt) towards Wachenheim, the soils start to mix with Muschelkalk and sandstone, producing wines with greater-degrees of finesse (first Jesuitengarten and then Pechstein, which is a true Forst/Wachenheim hybrid and many peoples favorite because of that.)

#2 Vine age: Most producers in the Pfalz won’t produce a GG from a vineyard, regardless of its fame, until the vines are at least 15 years old. Wachenheim was one of the first villages in Germany to undergo Flürbereinigung, which is why Bürklin-Wolf with all of its holdings there has some of the oldest vineyards in the region (the exception is Wachenheimer Böhlig, which is newly planted).

#3 Cellar techniques. There are frankly too many different variations and philosophies here to list, but if we very generally take the 3B’s (Bürklin-Wolf, Bassermann-Jordan, and von Buhl), all of whom have parcels in the greatest vineyards of the Mittelhaardt, it is interesting to see why the wines taste different. Von Buhl is generally considered to make the most forward,fruity, easy drinking-style of the three. For the most part, the grapes are whole-cluster pressed and fermented using cultured yeasts. Bassermann does some spontaneous fermentation in both steel and old wood (sometimes new wood), farms Biodynamically, and sometimes adds a proportion of sweeter wine to its GGs (Auslese, BA) to round out the wines and add texture while walking the trocken-line. I for one, really like most of their top wines (and not-so-top wines) and think that they age beautifully. Bürklin-Wolf is the most traditional of the three. Sometimes whole-cluster, but most always spontan-fermentation in large, old oak casks –bottled later than the rest, lots of lees-contact. BW undeniably makes some of the longest-lived dry wines in Germany and also among the most complex. Also Bio-dyn.

Overall, I’d personally say that healthy grapes, some skin maceration, must-oxidation, cask fermentation, long-lees contact, and minimal filtration are a good start after the important requirements of terroir and yield are accounted for.

I have no doubt that the von Winning wines (as polarizing as they may be in their youth) will age into spectacular wines, and I’ll echo what others have said about Koehler-Ruprecht and Rebholz being long-haulers. I like the Christmann Idig a lot too (it is a different, much better wine than even a few years ago). 2009, 2010, and 2011 are masterpieces in waiting.

Cheers,
Bill

Bill, great post. I need to read it more in depth and then I will have questions for you.

Lyle_Fass · May 22, 2013, 4:09pm

Martin,

Thoughts on '01 KR Auslese Trocken Reserve?

Had that this past summer and was blown away.

Martin_Zwick · May 23, 2013, 10:31am

Lyle,

yes, magic juice. Keep your eyes open for the 2004 version, clearly a notch better than 01. BTW, I had the chance to taste his RR bottles at the estate which Bernd Philippi drinks himself and don´t find its way to the market. Road to Riesling-paradise…

Fair to say that KP Saumagen Auslese trocken R is not everybody´s cup of Riesling.

Charlie_Gierling · May 23, 2013, 11:21am

I had this 3 times. Simply great, but it needs air and slow drinking.

Charlie_Carnes · May 23, 2013, 11:38am

Mirrors my sentiments. I stopped buying these as well. But, every now and then one will jump up and surprise me though. A 2009 Morstein a little while back was dang tasty.

David_Bu3ker · May 23, 2013, 11:47am

I have heard from people I trust that the wines are somewhat more elegant now. I might re-visit, but only at closeout prices, so it’s likely to be a while.

Martin_Zwick · May 23, 2013, 12:06pm

Come on, the Rieslings from KELLER never were, never will be “too much of just about everything”.

KELLER Rieslings was&is all about precision…and finesse&mineral complexity.

BTW, for all the people who has doubts about these wines I strongly recommend to taste the 2012 Estate Riesling. Soo much great Riesling for littlle money. More about the 2012s in the coming days.

Cheers,
Martin

David_Bu3ker · May 23, 2013, 12:10pm

People can differ in their impressions Martin. Frankly - the every year is the best year ever and the repeated hyperbole just undermines your messages.

Gene_Vance · May 23, 2013, 12:24pm

Terrific thread! Thanks to everyone.