For Port Lovers and Haters: A Port Too Far... ? Opinions Wanted

WINE TALK
1

Hi Berserkers,

Okay, looking for advice, info, recommendations general musings and rants from those of you Berserkers who love your port or loathe it based on your own experiences.

Today at the 2011 Toronto Wine and Cheese Show, I sampled Taylor Floodgate 10 Year Old Tawny Port. I am a sweet wine lover with a particular affinity for icewine who is now branching into TBAs, Sauternes and fruit wines. I have had a few tastes of port before and liked it but haven’t really gone berserk over it. I was really looking forward to this and it ended up being the first time I’ve tried port where I was truly repulsed by it.

At first, it was nice. Long and lingering coffee, toffee, and burnt sugar caramel flavors nicely balanced with a strong oak flavor and alcohol. However, as I kept drinking it started to really become cloying, bitter, distasteful and one-dimensional due to the excessive maderization. The oak-aging which goes so wonderfully with the icewines and sauternes I’ve had since becoming a Berserker suddenly started to taste like, well, I put dirty old wood in my mouth. It ended up like drinking straight burnt sugar mixed with alcohol. I could’ve burnt sugar on the stove, mixed it with water and fermented and wound up with the same thing.

I simply could not finish the glass after the taste had turned on me and had to discard the rest, the only wine I did this to the entire show. We all know, of course, that port has be maderized to get that famous caramel flavor but I thought this was ridiculous – this wasn’t wine in any way, shape or form. It was liquid caramel with an annoying oak aftertaste. Man, I’d hate to see what the 20 year old port must be like.

SO… do you Berserkers love your port? Did I just get a bad bottle and/or brand? Was there not enough work by the servers put into it? Or is this just an acquired taste I have yet to get my palate accustomed to? Contrarily, do any of you think port is overrated and have found a similar dislike for it?

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this because I’ve looked through the board and seen only a few mentions of port. Of those few, experiences seem positive like Wspohn’s recent tasting of a vintage 1983 Graham Port and Kevin Ham’s positive experiences with a port but it sounds like he had to do a lot of work to get that port to be enjoyable.

Fire away. [cheers.gif]

2

From my limited experience, port- notably tawny is a pretty tough one to taste at a trade show. I like to sip it and let the air in the glass evolve the wine. Roy, Andy and the other experts will hopefully weigh in. In the meantime, check out Roy’s site for tn’s on this bottle. I adore port.

3

Paging Roy…

With all respect, I think when one is so passionate and exploring wine so early in the game, it is a little presumptuous to call a several hundred year old port house that makes a good 10 year tawny… “this wasn’t wine in any way shape or form”. Many with tremendous experience and great palates would disagree. Taylor is not my favorite Tawny, but it is a good drink. Maybe it was new to you and outside of your box. Port can be tremendous stuff.

The great thing about wine is the exploration. I have really enjoyed your enthusiastic posts over the last couple weeks. Reminds me of when I first got the bug along time ago. The fun is in the exploration. Be slow to judge, and quick to try to understand. Maybe you won’t like port, but your reaction is mostly you, and less the inherent quality of the wine.

Sorry to bash you, and no harm is intended. Just soak it all in and try some more port. Maybe it is for you, maybe not. And keep up the passion. It’s good to see.

Cheers

4

I think developing a taste for port is a long process. I thought it was too alcoholic the first time I tried it, but it’s just starting to grow on me over time. I’m still not enthralled with it, but I expect that I might be in 20 years when my 94s are ready. =)

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Hi Todd, don’t worry, no offense taken. And thanks for the note on my enthusiasm, it is appreciated.

Reading your reply, I see that I indeed chose my words poorly. Sorry about that. Of course, you’re right, it is incorrect to state that it wasn’t wine in any way, shape or form. I was trying to say that it wasn’t what I was accustomed to tasting in wine at this point having none of the qualities I would normally taste in any other kind of wine (i.e. fruit, minerality, acidity, etc).

However, I realize that even if I had stated it that way it would still sound stupid and amateurish – it’s referred to as PORT for a reason. The very name instantly associates it in the mind with a certain special class of wine and certain flavors and characteristics (for lack of a better term) and we all know that. In fairness, it did intially meet all of those expectations. It just kind of overwhelmed me at the end.

Anthony, good to know that at least my suspicion that an exhibition show is not exactly the ideal time and place to savor a tawny port was somewhat correct and that I should not be too quick to write it all off based on this experience.

And thanks for the note, Ashish. Places it into perspective. Perhaps it was a bit too soon as Todd says to dive into such a strong port with high expectations with my still developing palate.

6

I’m guessing you’d hate ancient Madeira. [tease.gif]
Tawnys are wood aged as opposed to bottle aged, i.e. Vintage and Crusted. Have you had any other wood aged wines? I personally love the rancio.
Check out Roy’s site, http://www.fortheloveofpost.com.

7

My first Ports were at a trade show, a couple Ruby Port’s…couldn’t figure out what anyone saw in these.

Then I had some 20 and 40 year Taylor Tawny’s, was very much impressed, but enjoyed them over a few days so lots of air.

The downward slope started when I started drinking Vintage Port, 1970 Taylor to be exact. A truly transforming experience, so unlike a Ruby or Tawny. Love VP now, that is my most common purchase, but regularly have a MV Tawny on hand to fill those nights where there is snow on the ground and I don’t have cause to open a 750 of VP.

Keep at it, as with all things wine related it is a journey not a destination…

8

And therein lies the answer for me…good VP’s are just something on a different level IMHO.

9

Fitting typo. It’s Taylor Fladgate of course…

10

I was lucky enough to begin my exploration with Taylor 20 year old. I loved the complexity, the balance of fruit and the aromatics that come from some barrel age. It is the Port equivalent of a 15 year old Bordeaux; the fruit is a part of the experience. With the ten year old, the fruit is front and center; much less realized, and if I am giving the Bordeaux equivalent, the wine just after bottling and before it closes down. I don’t mind the occasional glass, but it is for me, far too primary to be interesting even for a second glass.

Before giving up, I would try a 20 and a 30 year old. [wink.gif]

11

Thanks for the link to Roy’s site that a couple of you gave. Fittingly enough, the very first page I found on his site was his lengthy and well-written article on tawny port. This man is truly dedicated to his port passion. A great site and did help me get some perspective.

12

Hi Tran,

Whether or not one appreciates Port is a matter of taste. Lots of people like Port from their very first sip, while others find it unpleasant for whatever reason. I know people who dislike Sauternes because they say it is too simple and sweet. In my opinion, you need to find what you like. It is plausible that the bottle of 10 year old Taylor Port was not good, it happens, even at trade tastings where the producer or their agent doesn’t take the time to try every bottle they open, BEFORE pouring for the public. I can’t begin to tell you how many Ports (and table wines too) that I have found corked at such events over the years. But back to YOU.

Like Mark, I prefer 20 year old Tawny Port to 10 year old versions, for the most part. There are some fantastic 10 year old Tawnies, but they are not always easy to find. Some really top notch bottlings: Ferreira, Quinta do Portal, Burmester, Quinta da Romaneira, Niepoort, Ramos Pinto, San Leonardo, Croft, Kopke to name enough that I’m sure you’ll be able to find at least one of these to try. As much as I enjoy Taylor Ports, I’ve always felt their 10 year old Tawny was one of the weak spots in their entire lineup. Overall, it is about an 87 point experience for those who know my scoring gradient (FWIW). All of the aforementioned 10 year olds are 90-94 pointers.

You may not be a Tawny enthusiast. Maybe LBV is a good place for you to start to see if you like Port. You don’t have to spend the money of a Vintage Port. In fact, you can find some very solid Ruby Reserves too, which are typically five to ten dollars less per bottle than LBV (Late Bottled Vintage) Port. Some good ones to look for are Graham’s Six Grapes, Fonseca Bin 27, Cockburn’s Special Reserve, Warre’s Warrior and Sandeman Founder’s Reserve to name a handful which are easily found, even in your Province.

You may find that Port takes awhile to grow on you or that you don’t like it at all. I very rarely see first timers react the way you did though … in terms of outright finding it repulsive after a few sips. Give it another chance and report back and let us know if the results are the same. IF you can find the Ferreira 10 year old Tawny, that would be a great place to start if you’re looking to compare your Tawny experience. [cheers.gif]

13

Yes I do love Port very much [cheers.gif]

As Roy mentioned Taylor’s 10 year tawny is also IMO the weakest of their line up and I prefer their 30 year old the best. Also keep in mind this tawny Port is made in large quantities and can be found relatively easily in most upper end markets, liquor stores, and wine shops. So like most wines in that predicament one shouldn’t expect a 100 pointer, if you catch my drift. It’s also possible you had an off bottle, as Roy noted and it’s happened to me many times.

I’m also the first to tell people to drink what they like and if they don’t like it that’s what the spit bucket is for. But I also caution people not to rush to judgment based on one or two bad experiences. Port, like any wine, has a many different types and far more producers making things from 100 pointers to stuff best left for unwanted guests. So maybe a younger tawny isn’t your cup of tea and maybe a different style from a different producer may be more up your alley. Port producers, like their wine counterparts, will have a house style that can be quite different from another’s similar product. If you ever get the chance to taste a 20 Year Old Sandeman Tawny next to a Ferreira 20 Year Tawny Port you’ll notice the distinctly different styles they possess. Roy’s mentioned some very good producers of 10 year old tawny’s and I’d recommend trying to find a couple and see how you like them.

I’d also recommend trying an LBV, older Colheita, a young VP and an older one to see how they change with age. Some people aren’t keen on young VP while some aren’t keen on older VP’s and the only way to find out is to try them out, and who knows you may turn out to like both. The best part is even top notch Ports are down right cheap compared to similarily scored and aged Burgundy/Bordeaux, so they really offer some of the best “bang for your buck” of any wine out there. That also means it’s relatively cheap to experiment with different types/vintages/and producers.

Do let us know if you end up trying more Port and if you’ve any questions please feel free to post a question, send me a PM, or email.

14

Andy, Roy,

Thanks very much for the detailed posts. I have to confess I’ve been thinking of trying port for quite a while but when the opportunity at the expo came up, the cost of the sample (5 tickets) versus the cost of a bottle seemed too good to pass up. GIven the result and the possible circumstances, maybe it wasn’t the bargain I thought it was.

There is another option I can explore, however, before jumping in with a full bottle. The LCBO’s here have tasting rooms and I can certainly try some different ports there. I will definitely give it another shot. Thanks guys.

Also, great site Roy!

15

Tran,

Roy and Andy have given you some great advice. I am a port lover, but haven’t dedicated the time to it as Roy and Andy have. My favorite Tawny is the Taylor Fladgate 40 year old. It gets better each day over a week’s time. Problem, $$$$$$$$. I keep a simple tawny around for a sip after dinner, saving the good stuff for occasions. Check around your area to see if anybody carries the Penfolds Club Port. It goes for about $12-14 U.S. It isn’t complex, nor nor does it exhibit as much alcohol heat like many just opened Tawnies and it is sweeter than most Tawny ports from Portugal. The extra sweetness may play to your palate while providing some of the flavors Tawnies are known for. If you find it and like it, it might be a good stepping stone to the aged Tawnies. The LBV’s, to me, are fruit driven where Tawnies have the caramel.

Next, you’ll be playing around with Madeira.

16

Great advice that I agree with totally.

I generally don’t take too much to Sauternes, and sometimes find that rancio character of many tawny’s as a bit much. As Roy suggests, try some LBV or VP’s…personally I find a great old VP to be the most complex of all wine styles. Just IMHO.

17

There are certain rules you need to understand about Port. Rule #1 is that if Roy Hersh says something about Port, the odds are really really good that he is correct. You can certainly can learn a lot from him.

I had the 10 year old Taylor Tawny Port a few years ago and my impression was like yours. Actually, mine was even worse. I thought it was awful. I did not write a formal note in Cellartracker, but my recollection was that it was extremely bitter, one dimensional at best, and it made my mouth implode. I also tossed the glass. Here is my note on the 20 year old Taylor Tawny. Love that Cellartracker database:

  • N.V. Taylor (Fladgate) Porto 20 Year Old Tawny - Portugal, Douro, Porto (7/11/2007)
    At a restaurant, served from the bar in a brandy snifter. Would have liked it a bit cooler - cellar temperature. Color was dark golden brown, about the same as a very dark single malt. My initial impression was caramel on the nose with a bit of excess alcohol heat and some nuts in the background. I was not thrilled with the nose because I thought the alcohol was way too strong. However, the palate did not disappoint. In order of prominence, there were roasted cashews. roasted pecans, sweet caramel and acidity. The alcohol was still there on the palate and was the only negative. I asked the waitress if she knew when the bottle had been opened. She had no idea but said the bottle was almost full. I suspect that it had been opened and immediately recorked, and it needed some air that it didn’t get, hence the strong alcohol aroma. After a while, it blew off and the taste got even better. The finish was longer than average, but not quite what I often get with really high end intense desert wines. I have not had a lot of tawnies for comparison purposes, but this was very very nice. (89 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

18

Andy too–Andy knows his ports a li’l bit.

I used to say that I needed to be in the mood to have port. Then I visited Roy and he introduced me to some lovely older stuff (a 1980 Dow in this case) and I discovered that I didn’t have to be in the mood after all—I could just enjoy port. It was a fun and truly pleasurable revelation. While I still don’t stock it manically, I can now appreciate how, with the proper age and decanting, port can be a tremendous experience. I truly do have Roy to thank for getting me over that proverbial hump. In addition to the older VPs, older Colheitas can also be lovely (my personal example being bottles of 76 Kopke that I have sadly consumed—no patience, they were so good!)

19

Andy too–Andy knows his ports a li’l bit.

Now there’s the UNDERstatement of the month! A li’l bit = 99.9% of the world’s population.

I realize your comment was in homage. [cheers.gif]