Food and Wine Pairing is Vastly Overrated

WINE TALK
1

I couldn’t agree, more.

W. Blake Gray relates the following in an interview with Tim Hanni: “And here’s a big difference between an MW and an MS: he thinks food-and-wine pairing is vastly overrated, so much so that he rewrote the Wine & Spirit Education Trust’s advanced curriculum to eliminate food pairing entirely.”

WineSearcher article, below:
http://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2014/01/what-kind-of-wine-taster-are-you

Enjoy,

Kenney

2

interesting to see GV mentioned prominently in that article.

3

I think you missed the main story there:

Hanni believes the 100-point scale arose because of the dominance of Tolerant tasters, who love things that are bigger, faster and stronger. They prefer fuller-bodied reds and can’t understand why anyone would like watery, weak wines. They speak loudly, are linear thinkers and bottom-line oriented. They’re about 15 percent of the population, Hanni says, and almost entirely men – which makes them 30 percent of all men.

Tolerant tasters “tend to be financially successful and that’s why we have the tyranny of the 100-point system,” Hanni declares. “It’s how they look at the bottom line of a business. The tolerant taster gets less of a spectrum of taste and less gradations. They hear less bandwidth. Things need to be turned up. It’s more black-and-white for them.”

It follows, then, that in Hanni’s view Robert Parker bases his tasting process on the Tolerant Taster model.

4

I attended a presentation by Jerry Comfort on some of the ideas Hanni talks about regarding food and wine pairing. Jerry was right in saying that he could tell us the ideas in only a few minutes, but that none of us would believe him so he’d have to demonstrate them. I know now that there is really something to these ideas.

I always found it odd how so many people in the modern US wine world, where so many people rightfully point out that each of us has our own preferences and those are often wildly different from someone else’s, will argue about what’s “right” or “wrong” or what does or doesn’t work with food and wine pairing when they’re really only speaking for themselves and generalizing out to everyone else. After reading Hanni’s book, I know for certain that those people are way off base and a little bit about why. Look at how many threads there are here about what goes with what in which someone says “it tasted good to me, so it will taste good to everyone”. That is completely false reasoning, and those people are often suggesting a pairing that would make the wine taste far worse than it does on its own to a significant portion of the population, including me. I applaud Hanni for pointing out that as progressive as we (the wine community) think we are, there are still many of us who are stuck in the dark ages (1970s) when it comes to individual taste sensitivities.

I won’t go so far as to say traditional food and wine pairing is complete BS, but I have recognized that many of the old “truths” that we’ve learned are wrong. I think we’d all be better suited to learn a little more about how different taste sensations effect the overall character of a wine consumed directly afterward, and to think more about balancing taste when creating a dish to go with a wine. I’ve seen huge improvements on how wines taste with certain familiar favorite dishes by making small modifications to the recipes, even when the pairing “should” work just fine without changing anything.

Parker is definitely a tolerant taster, and when I recognize customers with similar sensitivities (less than most other people) and resulting preferences (the bigger the better, and more oak and alcohol is perfectly fine and often preferred), I’ve started doing something that I would have thought to be crazy just a few months ago. I’ve started suggesting that they might agree with Parker most of the time and that it wouldn’t be a bad thing to test that theory. Even though I disagree with him most of the time, and he obviously says/writes a lot of ridiculous things about wines, he is very consistent. Of course, I have already formed relationships with these customers and they do come to me for advice, but if I haven’t tried a wine and Parker loved it, I might even blindly suggest that wine to these certain people. Now flame away, those of you who think I am foolish.

5

Hey, we do what we gotta do, and have only our conscience as our guide.

6

I expected that, but I stand by my reasoning. Do you seriously think it doesn’t make sense, or are you just making a joke?

7

The problem that I have with all this stuff is that those who shoot down prevailing wisdom seem bent on persuading others that theirs should be the new prevailing wisdom by claiming that everything that has gone before is wrong and that they are the new authority.

I take new information more seriously when it dispenses with hype and just states facts. Promotional theory is the result of understanding the human capacity for suggestibility. Famous wine glass promoters do it, and so do others.

8

Food and wine pairing is a black art at best.

Now I am going to have lentil soup and Nebbiolo.

9

Yeah, amazingly credible, this. A former Olive Garden consultant, a self-declared alcoholic who has not drunk wine in over 20 years turned Malcolm Gladwell wannabe (and MW to boot, and those who know my posts know how in awe I am of MWs!), being interviewed by Blinky Gray about Gary Vee’s mother’s morning sickness (could he be less qualified to opine on that?). There are food and wine pairings beyond traditional food and wine pairings? You can EXPERIMENT? OMFG, what a concept!!! Anybody here drink red wine with their tuna steaks 30 years ago, as many did? Or has anybody ever drunk whatever they wanted or whatever they had on hand rather than researching food and wine pairings for a few hours? And a great idea to eliminate food pairing in the WSET. After all, wine has only been vinified to enjoy with food for, oh, milennia, and Tim Hanni has, well, come out of nowhere with a bunch of sensational notions, all calculated to attract attention to himself and his first book. Kenney, I am delighted for you that you couldn’t agree more. And bravo, Thomas P. Thanks for the post, Robert…

David B., remember the “plastics” scene from “The Graduate”? Psst…“asparagus and Viognier”…

10

I can understand that, Thomas. I’m not fully on board with everything Hanni preaches, but I do believe he has correctly exposed the fact that much of what has been believed for some time is not true. I think he states some things absolutely that might not be absolute, but I also acknowledge that he has studied these topics far more than almost anyone out there and that at least much of what he says is true. I really don’t get the sense that he’s exposing supposed untruths just to promote his own way of thinking. Rather, it does seem to be genuine because his own way of thinking is based on a lot of undeniable supporting evidence rather than the old “I’ve experienced it, so it must be true” thought process. Sometimes radically new outlooks seem like hype only because they are so radical. I don’t disagree with you in that some things he says are pretty sensationalized. My outlook is to continue to learn about what he’s saying so I can take what I agree with and leave what I don’t. So far, there’s been some of each, but more of the former than the latter.

You don’t seem to be doing this,Thomas, so this isn’t aimed at you, but I know there are people who refuse to even explore these ideas because Hanni has such an extreme personality type and way of presenting his ideas, and is brash enough to be a dedicated self-promoter. I think those people might be missing something huge because they don’t want to challenge their existing views. I’m thinking of several long-time wine industry professionals I’ve talked to, and their closedmindedness extends way beyond this specific area. In a marginally related illustration of my point, I might lose it if one more person insists to me that we taste soil minerals in wine when I politely mention the fact that there is no evidence to support that claim and a lot of evidence that it is probably not true.

11

Flattered flirtysmile

Best,

Kenney

12

I should have thought that you wouldn’t be able to resist this one, Bill. I might sometimes miss the obvious here because I am already obviously in agreement with SOME of what Hanni is saying. Yes, the way he presents this stuff can be pretty sensational, but I don’t think that or your thoughts on the MW certification (of which I am well aware) should be enough to discount everything the guy has to say. You might find parts of his book interesting if you were able to suffer through the parts that would cause a similar reaction to the one above (of which there are many). I don’t expect that you’ll read it, but I hope you’ll be exposed to some illustrations like the ones I have experienced.

13

Doug, I can imagine that some of the things that he says in the book are so. However, among those who are both serious foodies and serious wine buffs, this looks like old news in a new package. That crowd, of which I have been a card-carrying member for decades, does not subscribe to the traditional food and wine pairings set out in Food and Wine and pocket guides by Leslie Sbrocco and Natalie McLean. We experiment…

14

This, I find ridiculous. The 100 point system is based on the A-F grading system we had in school. If I submitted math homework done artfully in thick pen on fancy paper with 75% correct, I math teacher would give me a 75. Submit that same work to an art teacher and perhaps it’d get a 95. Just because certain critics think bigger is better doesn’t mean it is. And sure, we’ve seen some lemmings who rate wines they don’t like higher than wines they do. [head-bang.gif] But really, the 100 point system is nothing more than a language. It’s only a problem when people see it as more than it is. (And yes, critics do try to portray their snapshot views as authoritative and the pinnacle of objectivity.)

Hanni’s assessment of Parker sounds spot on. Some of his ideas and proclamations seem a bit looney, while others are insightful. He does understand how complex individual tastes are, where one component can make or break a wine or dish for someone. Where, for example, the addition of one spice to a dish can change a bad pairing into a good one (for an individual) and why - predictably, if the palate of that person is understood.

So, did those two experts really not get back to Gray because they didn’t want to comment on Hanni or because they didn’t want to talk to gray? [rofl.gif]

15

A differing opinion from a couple of our members:

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=313132#p313132

16

I think you have to ask"what is the point of this “information?”

Do I care what a critic thinks? No. That’s why I follow none and that’s why my wine writing is not geared toward criticism.

Do I care what others think of my preferences? No. Why should you care what I like?

If I prefer certain kinds of wines with certain foods, what do I care about my mother’s morning sickness? What can I do about it? My preference is my preference (incidentally, if you want to bet on something bet that a woman experiences morning sickness during pregnancy…odds are on your side).

I do see value in understanding how smell and taste work–and since I have studied wine, produced wine, taught wine, and sold the stuff, I think I do know something about the subject. I’ve known for years that people generally prefer sweetness over other sensations…it’s in our makeup.

Remove the semantics, put a clothespin on your nose, stick some food into your mouth and tell me what you “taste.” You might learn something about the relationship between smell and taste. But even that has little to do with your preferences.

What Tim has learned from his research gives him a product to sell to the wine industry. That’s fine, and I believe that his work does indeed have a place in wine marketing and wine promotion. How to talk with your customer is important–understanding that customer is a prerequisite.

Ask yourself what that has to do with you.

17

Fascinating read but I dislike absolutes. I know people with incredibly sensitive tasting capacities who use the 100 point scale.
Food and wine pairing is most certainly not overrated. Misunderstood perhaps but not overrated.
Food and wine pairing in a restaurant should respect customer tastes and good sommeliers accommodate and can gently educate but never dictate.
But pairing food and wine can be a fine art! And fun too.

18

Go to the greatest wine regions in the world. Order the local typical food. And pair it with a local typical bottle of wine. And honestly tell me that there is not something going on between the two. And I will call you an “idiot” too.

http://www.sommelierjournal.com/articles/article.aspx?year=2008&month=11&articlenum=47

19

The issue I have with is that all of this just justifies and excuses laziness in our culture with food and wine.
Saying, ‘let people like what they like’, is fine in theory but it doesn’t help us grow and become more intellectual/healthier as a culture. It’s also one of the main reasons that the corporate food system is in full gear and influencing other nations and cultures.
Of course most people like Soda pop, chocolate cake, junk food and fat. It’s also the reason that we are one of the most unhealthy nations that there are. By simply saying these people are ‘sweets’ and leaving it at that does the greater ‘whole’ a disservice.
People often forget that one of the main reasons for acid in wine is that it gets the salivary gland going creating more acid in the stomach in which helps to digest food. The majority of ‘old world wines’ historically have an ample amount of acid, hence helping the digestion of high fat/butter diets.

By simply eschewing aside history and anatomy and saying that pairing is vastly overrated goes against the very nature of why we post and care about wine/food. It only helps major food/wine companies in their simplification of what we consume and makes it more difficult for independent, progressive producers to find a voice in the mass sea of marketing.

20

Exactly. Learning how to eat is one of the most important things in life. You are going to eat for the rest of your life, you should do it well. And wine can be an important part it.