Wrong price range for the OP.
We all need goals and aspirations! And muses!
fify
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aren’t those twi much more expensive than Lalande Borie?
Internetwines.com has the 2019 Ferriere for $30. The 2020 for $35.
That’s like stealing…
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I was referencing your preference for La Dame Montrose and Gloria over Lalande Borie. Those wines are significantly more expensive than Lalande Borie.
Just found a private offer of a few aged and affordable bottles of Bordeaux, I was wondering about your thoughts on these (sorry for typos/unclarities, I just copied the list: let me know if something doesn’t add up). This has nothing to do with the list that we compiled (I will stick to that):
Chateau l’Hospitalet de Gazin 1993
Domaine de Chevalier L’Esprit de Chevalier 2012
Clos de L’Oratoire Neippberg 2020
Dutruch Grand Poujeaux 2018
Chateau Brilette Haut Medoc 1974
Chateau Les Ormez de Pez 1980
les Jonqueyres Blaye Cotes de Bordeaux 2000
Chateau la Millerie 1989
Clos Rene 2019
D’Aguilhe 2015
Chateau Gruaud-Larose ‘Sarget de Gruaud-Larose’ 2008
Chateau Grandis 1995
Beau-Site 2002, 2009
Chateau Maison Blanche Montagne 1989
Chateau Segonzac Blave Grand Vin Bordeaux 2000
La Demoiselle de Sociando Mallet 2011
Hauts de Lynch Moussas 2010, 2012
Chateau Pontoise-Cabarrus 2010
Chateau Citran 2007, 2011
La Closerie Camensac 2010
Chateau Maurac 2005
l’Heritage de Chasse Spleen 2011, 2014
la Closerie de Malescasse 2010
Chateau Bel-Air Bordeaux 2010
Chateau Haut-Mayne Graves 2008
Chateau Brillette ‘B de Brillette’ 2010
Chateau Bouqueyran 2003
Chateau Ruat Petit Poujeaux 2005
Chateau Anthonic 2004, 2009, 2012,
Chateau l’Angelot de Seguin 2007
Chateau Haut-Vigneau 2012, 2015
Barone Philippe de Rothschild 2000
Chateau Haut-Bages Monpelou 2004
Chateau Clauzet 2009
Saint-Paul de Dominique 2003
Chateau Haut-Tayac 2015
Chateau Laroze 2013
Chateau Tronquoy 1992
Vignobles Jean Sorge Chateau Deyrem Valentin 2014
Chateau Boyd-Cantenac ‘Jacques Boyd’ 2011
Fugue de Nenin 2007
Chateau Balac 2009
S de Siran Chateau Siran 2007
Chateau de La Croix 2010
Chateau Armens La Dame d’Armens 2009
Little K by Kirwan 2012
La Chapelle de Bages 2009
Chateau de Chantegrive 2005
La Salle de Chateau Poujeaux 2006
Chateau Lugaud 2009
Chateau Senejac 2010
Chateau Malartic Lagraviere La Reserve de Malartic 2011
Tertre du Moulin 2005
Chateau Houissant 1996
Bernard Magrez Chateau La Tour Carnet ‘Cuvee Les Douves’ 2005
Chateau Beaumont 2015
Esprit de Pavie 2011
Chateau Clement-Pichon 2011
Chateau Larrivet Haut-Brion ‘Les Hauts de Larrivet Haut-Brion’ 2005
Chateau du Tailhas 2012
Clos Albertus 2012
L’Oratoire de Chasse-Spleen 1992, 2008
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, looks to me that someone is trying to unload crappy second labels and crappy vintages. If it is priced correctly, I might take a swing at the 2010 Senejac. That winery is a decent value play.
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you’re not sounding like a jerk at all. quite the contrary, I appreciate your frankness. the senejac 2010 comes at 22 Euro, but I don’t think I’ll go for it because with regards to shipping costs I’d have to order at least six bottles to make a sensible purchase.
I won’t argue Bordeaux with the likes of Robert, but I have always found D’Aguilhe a pretty good value play at $30 or less here in the US and it ages well. ymmv.
My impressions as well, although at good pricing (average $10 bottle?) many might be worth a try.
The 2010 Senejac jumped off the page at me, too. I actually considered adding that château to this list as a value producer to seek out. I would legit expect that 2010 to be very good, if not low level excellent.
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Thank you Stephen, the D’Aguilhe 2015 goes for 30 Euro.
Thank you Brian.
I was wondering specifically about these, since some of them were mentioned in the thread:
L’Oratoire de Chasse-Spleen 1992, 2008
l’Heritage de Chasse Spleen 2011, 2014
S de Siran Chateau Siran 2007
Chateau Les Ormez de Pez 1980
La Demoiselle de Sociando Mallet 2011
Chateau Bel-Air Bordeaux 2010
If your meal is going to be someone else’s leftovers, then you shouldn’t have to pay full retail. I wouldn’t be interested in any of those unless they came with a significant discount. Maaaaybe the 2010 Bel Air would be worth trying for a bit more. But, really, save your money and buy more thoughtfully is my suggestion (unless you actually can land these under 10 euro a bottle, in which case —- sure, go ahead, take some cheap flyers. Just keep your expectations low.)
Brian, thank you, that makes a lot of sense and I appreciate your advice. I will just stick to the previous list because it doesn’t make sense to pay shipping costs for one bottle of senejac
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One piece of buying advice: at the end of every once in a lifetime incredible deal on Bordeaux, there is another. You’ll never run out of buying opportunities.
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Thank you Tim, that’s important advice because imho this greatly differs from the situation wrt burgundy, where you can’t be quick enough
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Very true. A function of supply and demand.
In general, I see Bordeaux wines as fitting into four categories:
- The mid-tier to upper tier classified growths, $60+. These are the ones that are most sought after, and generally have the highest quality. The prices can go up quite a bit as you get into the top wines (e.g. Latour, Lafite, Petrus, etc).
- The lower tier classified, upper tier non-classified, and second wines of mid/top tier ($20-$60). There are some real quality wines here, and this is where I like to play. Sociando Mallet, La Lagune, Cantemerle, etc, play in this space. As do some of the seconds from the big producers. The second wines from the first growths have, frankly, priced themselves out of a qpr in this case.
- The value outside of the classified growths (<$20). There a lots of great Bordeaux wines from the satellites and nearby appellations, for example Cotes de Castillon, Cotes de Bourg, etc. These are the daily drinkers, great wines but won’t necessarily last 20 years.
- Everything else. I tend to avoid seconds from lower tiered classified (usually just trading on the name), Most Bordeaux wine is made for the masses and is not particularly notable. Fine as a vin de table but nothing I would spend real money on.
Of course, there is a lot of crap in the classified growths, so just because it showed up on a list in 1855 doesn’t make it worthy. And vintage is incredibly important as well. We were in Bordeaux last year and some Somm at a restaurant challenged/convinced us to buy a 2013 Bordeaux. It was every bit as bad as we had expected it to be. Lots of great value in Bordeaux, but lots of bad wine too.
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Tim, thank you, this is very insightful.
With regards to the value outside of the classified growths: what are typical drinking windows for these?