Extinct French Grapes

WINE TALK
1

I’m working on a project about extinct grapes and extremely rare wines.

Can anyone tell me of any extinct French grapes (preferably but not limited to Bordeaux.) I’m aware of the Carmenere being rediscovered in Chile… but I’m looking for history of a grape that is STILL extinct and has been since at least the 1800’s.

A grape that, if found today, would be considered very valuable.

I really appreciate all your time and help.

2

Hard to believe that someone here can’t help Jonathan!

3

Moneroa would probably be an extinct grape with Bordeaux heritage…

4

Jonathan, I don’t know exactly what your project is, but the issue of extinct grapes is rather tricky. For example, Carmenere is not even extinct in France today, although it appears there is only a very small amount estimated to be 20 HA:
http://www.vindefrance-cepages.org/en/encyclopedie-des-cepages-de-france-carmenere-8
I think the issue is complicated by the fact that many grapes have been excluded from AOCs and DOs by regulators and are not often used to produce commercial wine, but plantings still exist. A couple examples of rare wines using such grapes: Ganevat makes a wine called J’en Veux from 17 Jura varietals that are not permitted under the Jura AOC (you can read about it here):

As another example, Raul Ibanez makes a Palo Cortado which includes 5 varietals that are not permitted in Sherry DO wine (you can read about it here):

In the case of both the Jura and Sherry regions, there were several dozen once widely planted varietals that are now rare or possibly extinct. Often, these varietals were coplanted, so pockets of many may still exist. In a commercial sense though, they are extinct as of today.
I find this sort of topic fascinating and I would be interested in learning what you discover. There is a group called Wine Mosaic, which is working to preserve rare varietals. Perhaps it would help to send them an inquiry:

There is also a movement in Spain called Manifesto 119 which is dedicated to finding and working with some of the 119 autoctonous varietals listed in a 19th centruy botanists work. I have no contact info for them, but here is a post from Andrew Ward’s excellent undertheflor blog:

Andrew posts here about Sherry fairly often and is probably worth contacting as well.
I will give this some more thought and if anything more comes to mind, I will post it.

5

C’Mon, Kyle…you know I’ve followed that grape from the very start!!! [snort.gif]
Tom

6

TomHill is the perfect guy to ask. Most Bordeaux grapes (and reptiles) that existed when he was born are extinct!!!

7

According to Jancis Robinson’s older “Vines, Grapes, & Wines”, St Macaire (Bouton Blanc) and Pardotte (Pignon), as well as Mancin, were dwindling down to miniscule plantings around Medoc at the time of printing, 1986. I don’t know what the numbers look like thirty years later.

8

There’s about ten acres of a grape growing in San Benito county called Cabernet Pfeffer that has a very Bordeaux looking leaf. When we got a few vines tested last year, UCDavis said it was a variety called Mourtaou, which is from that general region. I can’t find out too much more about it. Dunno if that’s of any interest.

9

Hmmmm…CabernetPfeffer…now there’s a name I hadn’t heard in some time, Ian.
Do you remember the wonderful CabernetPfeffers crafted by EdFriedrichs (sp?) back in the late '70’s under Almaden’s CharlesLeFranc label?? I doubt that you do…but I sure do.
Tom

10

What about any French grapes that were extinct by the mid 1800’s?

11

How do I avoid making a Ray Walker joke here?

12

Why don’t you just try answering the question?

13

You’re kinda snippy for a guy that’s looking for other people to do his homework.

14

Yeah, get with the flow, bro! You’re on Wine Berserkers.

15

Can you please elaborate on what you are trying to do? I am happy to reach out to some folks, but I need a little more to go with.

16

Sure. This is for a film I was hired to write. It takes place in the South of France in the mid- 1950’s. There’s a very wealthy man who has planted an extremely rare grape (for red wine) on his land, that has been extinct since the 1800’s. The idea is that the grape is invaluable, distinct taste, etc…unavailable anywhere else in the world. Through research, I’ve found a bunch of grapes that were rescued from near extinction. I’d like to find one that was not saved. But if it had, would be very expensive.

17

I’m way too lazy to do the research but off the top of my head I can’t think of a grape that was near extinction that became valuable when “found” and brought back to sufficient average for wine production. Grapes go extinct for reasons and the “valuable” ones are cared for so that they don’t.

18

My impression too. If a grape makes good wine, it doesn’t go extinct. Even when phylloxera hit and destroyed many (if not most!) of the vines in Europe, vintners got American rootstock to graft onto so the grapes were saved.

19

Godello in Spain was almost lost forever. It’s a gem. I think a good variety can disappear in the dust storm of economic ferver - especially if international varieties are the hot buys.

20

There are plenty of examples of grapes rescued from extinction in Italy…
Schioppettino/Longanesi/Tazzalenghe/PiculitNeri…much of EmilioBulfon’s portfolio.
Tom