I’m planning on Extended Maceration with my Grenache (~15% whole cluster) co-fermenting with 17% Syrah, both from The Rocks District of Milton Freewater. As the Brix went to 0 at 11 days, the tannins seemed to massively increase. I understand the science says there will be some polymerization of tannins eventually. Does anyone have any idea when I can expect to experience that?
When you say the tannins seemed to massively increase, what is it you are referring to? Tannin perception? Tannin analysis? And over what timescale? Are you saying tannins increased a lot from, say, 2 Brix to 0 Brix?
Tannin perception. (I haven’t done labs since getting a juice panel right at the beginning of cold soak to determine YAN). At the drop between 8 and 2 Brix, fruit was suddenly dialed back and the tannins seemed to jump. They have persisted over the following 2 days from 0 to -0.5 Brix. I’m not perceiving any increase but haven’t noticed them softening. I have ended any punchdowns and my plan was to let it soak for at least another week to 10 days before pressing.
Have you made this wine before? What is your level of experience with red winemaking? Forgive the elementary questions or information but I don’t know your background so just want to cover the fundamentals first.
All red wines will show a large increase in perceived tannin/astringency as they start to dry out. This is due to the fact that you no longer have sugar around to smooth things out. That part of things is totally normal. Perceived astringency will also soften during malolactic fermentation and further during aging, as the wine loses its dissolved carbon dioxide and picks up some oxygen. But without tasting the wine it’s hard to know where things stand. Why are you doing an extended maceration? I’d be reluctant to make any recommendations about the introduction of oxygen right now or the length of your extended maceration
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What was your initial juice panel like? pH/TA, Brix? It’s very normal for things to ratchet up tannin wise as you lose sugar. High acidity can bring that out as well. Grenache tends to not have the biggest tannin load, but it generally outstrips its color. You are definitely building more of a tannin load - and I’m not a huge proponent of EM most of the time - for any variety. I’d be careful about building something that isn’t going to come out all that readily.
How long do you anticipate it being in barrel? Many times post harvest - I have a “what did you do” moment with whole cluster. It evens out in months 7-9 and integrates over the next 3-7 depending on the wine.
Long story short, I’d probably press it and throw it in barrel at this point. You’re not going to get a whole lot of “nice” tannin at this point - and being in barrel will start your movement towards a bit less tannic…
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My only experience with Grenache was last year when I made a wine of essentially the same composition. That fruit was from Southern Oregon’s Rogue Valley because a freeze had wiped out my Grenache source from The Rocks and I wanted to get some experience working with Grenache. I did not press that wine until completely dry and tannins did not jump like this. It turned out fine, with some pretty fruit and a touch of spice but it was simple and less structured than I was hoping for and the color seems to be getting lighter all the time.
Rocks fruit is known for its savory character and that’s what I’m hoping to get with both the whole cluster and the extended maceration, which I also hope will better stabilize the color. The tannic jump was alarming in light of last year’s experience. I’ve halted punchdowns/pumpovers as seed tannins are more easily extracted as the ethanol level rises. Having no experience with extended maceration and my history of avoiding overly tannic Pinot Noir, I was hoping to get some guidance other than the literature about what to expect. Do you have experience waiting out initial tannin buildup until the tannins polymerize?
Again, tough one here. I’d say a big reason is the weather difference between this year and last, and likely the source. I haven’t been tracking Washington weather - but we’ve had a longer, drawn out year here in the Central Coast/North Coast of California. I’ve seen some more aggressive tannin in some lots, and some I have seen less, it depends. The grenache I pulled in, I used about 20% whole cluster, and was on skins for 14 days. I saw a little tightning, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Again, even if you aren’t manipulating the cap - that ethanol is still doing the work of extracting tannin. As berries macerate, you’re going to expose more seed tannin (as well as skin and stem). I’ve done hundreds of EM’s - though very little on grenache as I’m just trying to get enough tannin to fix color, and not overload the palate. Extended maceration is a bit of a dice roll - but you hit a tipping point, and you have to go through or you get the worst of both worlds. Just press it if the cap falls - that’s been pretty solid common wisdom (though I’ve done a 364 day EM before on Cab - it actually was quite nice).
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Thanks, Trevor. I appreciate getting your experienced opinion. BTW the Juice panel: 3.73pH, 4.2g/L TA, 23.9 degrees Brix by refractometer with Glucose+Fructose at 245g/L. I am at day 14 tomorrow. With Brix at -1.3 there is more color and flavor starting to show which is probably helping to mask rising tannins. I’m looking at ~14 months in neutral barrels, if we go by our regular bottling schedule.
Hi Marty-
Following along and I’d love to know how this turned out? I mainly produce Pinot, Gamay and Malbec for my reds, and have only done EM insofar as I sometimes wait for the cap to drop.
Looking forward to hearing about it.