I’ve come across a few other places that do this (full tip charged plus optional additional tip), most notably, Jon and Vinny’s and their associated restaurants, including the recently closed Animal and Son of a Gun. Different restaurants give different PR driven explanations, but the bottom line is it’s a collective action problem, as consumers get put off by the higher menu prices and don’t consider the all-in cost. Pretty similar issue to the restaurants that have gone to the no tipping model and reversed course like the Union Square Hospitality Group.
Agreed. Given the collective action problem, it would certainly require legislation. I would love it if Sacramento gave it a shot.
I would say they are indeed raising their prices by 18%. They are telling you that this is to cover costs including employee pay and benefits, and ostensibly not additional profit.
Then price the menu accordingly. In what other major industry do the customers pay the merchants’ employees directly or in addition to the purchase price?
I understand why restaurants virtue signal and make political statements about charging patrons separately for employee benefits. I don’t like it, even though I likely agree with the political point.
Do the math, tell me the price, and I’ll pay it. Or not. But don’t nickel and dime me with your overhead as additional charges on my bill. What’s next, a dishwashing soap supplement?
Thus endeth the rant.
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it is in place of tip.
They have to say it’s not gratuity or tip because otherwise 100% of it has to go to staff.
If you want to tip another 2% to round it up to 20% go for it. but I don’t know a single place where you’re expected to pay the 18% SC and then pay another 18-20% tip.
With the 4% health charge , I lower my tip a little usually , often less than $ for $. usually making it 20% before tax vs after.
I tip only on food and beverage sub-total, never on sales tax and other misc. charges.
I wish they would explicitly say that. As stated, they’re introducing a new kind of surcharge and letting the customer guess whether they should tip another 20% or not.
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I thought the 18% at J&V wasn’t tip and they expected 18%+ more and thus the servers sued J&V.
I know there was a Reddit thread that listed all restaurants that add a service % and why and if additional tip is suggested / recommended.
Here’s the post.
https://reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/s/DsZq9CO5VD
I feel like it’s kinda self explanatory. I’m still puzzled why we are the only country in the world that hasn’t figured out service charges/tips.
But quite a few restaurants in LA I’ve been to with a service charge will tell me. Service charge is included no need for gratuity.
They just have to put in writing “it’s not a tip and not gratuity” because of lawsuits like the one against J&V. Honestly I don’t see why servers deserve an inequitable amount of gratuity and a service charge allows for a more equitable distribution of wages. Not sure why this is so confusing to the general public
Basically the service charge is - in lieu of tips we are going to give benefits and a living wage to all of our staff like the rest of the world. Opposed to just servers getting an outsized share
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eh, that’s not what (at least) the J&V policy states. in fact, they encourage you to tip if you feel like it’s warranted. which is…regular tipping.
https://www.jonandvinnys.com/service-charge
their explanation for “why not just raise costs” is also nonsense. it reads like “we don’t know which items we can increase and how much so we’ll just add an arbitrary charge so that you can subsidize the wages of our staff directly…like tipping, but we’re legally allowed to share this with anyone we like (or no one), not just servers.”
as for the history of tipping, it’s related to restaurant workers being excepted from mw laws, which of course affects marginalized workers most. very on brand for USA.
edit: here’s a state breakdown of tipped wages Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees | U.S. Department of Labor
The very first sentence
" We believe in everyone making a more equitable wage and strive to create more stability for all of our team members.
What About Tips?
- If customers have exceptional service, we encourage them to tip our employees at the percentage or amount they feel comfortable with.
Yes they say you can tip whatever you feel comfortable with in another line, but no one is asking for 20%. Just like in Europe you might add a little more if you had exceptional service.
Yes, but we’re in the LA forum. City of LA requires minimum wage to be paid on top of any tips.
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Jon & Vinny’s is intentionally opaque about whether their 18% service charge is gratuity and how much is reasonable/expected in addition. I’ve asked the manager of your local outpost and received a lawyer-ish nonreply reply.
I don’t wonder at the response in light of the pending lawsuit by servers https://lamag.com/news/restaurant-service-charge-hidden-fees-tipflation
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Did you mean to write “county” ?
As for the rest of the J&V commentary I’m not sure you’ve moved the ball forward in lessening any confusion or general feeling that they’re making it up.
Seems suss to claim a desire for equitable and stable wages and then add an arbitrary % based on sales.
Call it what it is, an accounting trick that allows ownership to subsidize non-service costs with a recognizable tip-adjacent line items paid by customers. And also still tip plz.
When USHG experimented with this challenge they raised prices and refused tips.
I was explicitly told by my server the first time we ate at J&V’s that no additional tip was expected. But that was a few years ago, well before Covid, and perhaps the expectations changed.
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I actually think you’re giving them too much credit because what it really does allow their menu prices to appear lower than competitors’ at a glance to the average consumer, thereby disadvantaging those competitors who do equitably pay their employees without the 18% the service charge.
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Agree completely. I was avoiding the bigger issue here. It’s a terrible experience all around.
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If a restaurant is going to add this type of surcharge I wish they all did what Matu in Beverly Hills does:
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State the policy clearly on the menu. In Matu’s case it states “An 18% Fee will be added to your bill. This is not a tip or gratuity and it is not for service rendered by our people. We are a no-tipping establishment. The Fee is revenue that is not segmented or designated in any way and it is taxed per state law.”
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Don’t give the guest a receipt with the option of a tip line.
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Servers refuse additional cash tips.
I love their policy and eat there frequently. I sometimes feel guilty as I would generally leave a slightly larger tip than 18%, but there is nothing I can do!
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I like this from the diner perspective but the reality is that the best servers will - and should - leave as they’re making less money under this arrangement.
I don’t know how you break this without outlawing it. Which likely won’t happen.
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This policy is prevalent across all restaurants in the sugar fish family.
Hiho, uevo, SF, kazu, nozawa bar.
I love it
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