Mark,
You do know we’ve done tasting note challenges before.
I never cared for PJ Fleur in 96 very much, I think I own 1-2 bottles of that wine in total out of 1500 or so bottles of Champagne.
96 PJ Fleur/Belle Epoque is a poster child for everything that could go wrong with the 96 vintage. Tons of acidity, but early maturing fruit due to under-ripe phenolics. Even on release, it was never quite right and only went downhill from there.
The 95 vintage of this wine is much better although still not a great wine. To me, Fleur/Belle Epoque is more of a mid-level vintage wine than a prestige cuvee and now that PJ doesn’t make a basic vintage wine, it essentially really is that now. The Belle Epoque BdB is a true prestige cuvee, but it is pricey and much harder to find.
95 Grande Dame is good stuff. Underrated and tasty. Much better than its 96 counterpart which peaked on release and matured very quickly.
Thanks Brad, your insights are always appreciated. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
His father left us on Tuesday. ![[pillow-fight.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/3/365d4ae6de5fe0cd9e7345760c12ceae1ed5e206.gif "[pillow-fight.gif]")
Wish we could still buy those for that here… Peters is solidly around $50 locally or twice what you pay for it across the pond. I would agree that there is a lack of widespread Champagne value in the US. There are some great bargains out there like Legras and Genet but many like Peters are now overpriced in the US. I mostly drink Roederer’s CA Brut at around $18 which is the best deal bubbly on the planet IMO.
commercial post: I import Champagne from two Domaines.
I love the stuff and while I have had a substantial number of insipid bottles, I can’t remember ever having a bad one. Wish I could say the same for white Burgundy!
Most of the Grand Marques make a very pleasant, refreshing beverage that sells for a higher than warranted price because of history, quality and marketing. No region has been more zealous in protecting its identity and defending its quality. You are not thrilled by Mumm Cordon Rouge, Veuve Cliquot (or as we call it in the trade, Agent Orange), or Moet Brut Imperiale? Neither am I, but I can certainly distinguish between them. Based on sporadic tastings over the past decade, Mumm is boring, Veuve varies between boring and poor, and the Moet is consistent and pretty damned good. Due to clout, the producers make a fortune and distributors and stores make very little to get them on the shelf at ~$30 – 50.
The overall variety and quality of Champagne is amazing, but so are the prices, in a different way. Make no mistake: This is a Luxury. That’s the way the region and its economic overlords (AFAIK no other major parts of a whole class of wines are parts of luxury groups traded on stock exchanges; Bordeaux Classifieds are headed that way, but they are a small part of the overall Bordeaux market) want to present it, and through marketing clout and extremely strict quality control they have succeeded.
The three tier system raises Champagne prices no more or no less than any other wine. It just starts from a higher base for the reasons mentioned. I often go to alternatives… the better California bubbles are certainly worthy beverages, I agree spearheaded by Roederer Estate. Gruet from New Mexico is also an incredible value; if you can find it their Champagne is also excellent and very fairly priced (I believe they are their own importer). I rarely see it any more, but Mountain Dome bubbles from Washington are also really excellent and amazing values.
For prices comparable to good American bubbly there are also a wide variety of non-Champagne French bubbles: Cremants de Bourgogne, Loire, Alsace.
As far as value of white Burgundy vs Champagne, I am sorry to say that Champagne now wins hands down. When I started drinking wine (IIRC it was in the 1880s), 1er Crus from Meursault, Puligny and Chassagne sold for roughly the same as Grand Marque NV Bruts. You could lay them down for 10 years and have the world’s greatest white wines waiting for you. Today the prices are about the same as Grand Marque Vintage Bruts and laying them down for 10 years is like playing Russian Roulette with a six-shooter and five bullets.
Dan Kravitz
Dan Kravitz
Wow, super cool stuff, Dan! Thanks for all the wonderful insights.
Are you still on Weygandt’s payroll? 
Here’s the funny thing about Champagne – nearly every other wine region in the world including France (Alsace, Jura, Bourgogne, etc.) can make a sparkling wine with the exact same process as Champagne and still bring it for around $20 CDN so even the bargain grower Champagnes that sell for $40-50 CDN are very much a prestige item.
This said, I would always buys grower Champagnes as I have found, similar to Armagnac and Cognac, the big names charge you double to triple the price for comparative quality which means that you’re not getting value for the dollar and are paying for the brand instead. I avoid big names like the plague and always shop carefully for values in lesser known estates and names.
The biggest issue I am finding personally with sparkling wine is finding one that equals the quality of a bargain-priced vintage or NV Champagne from France. I’ve enjoyed Canadian and American sparklers as well as Jura, Alsace and Bourgogne sparklers and something about them always seems to fall just short of the greatness of Champagne. Still looking, though.
Tran,
Thank you for your support.
The Champagne terroir is unique. The growers (after the carefully restrained protests of 1911, when Moet, Mumm and Piper were burned to the ground and every bottle in their cellars was destroyed, but no lives were lost) have assured that Champagne comes from a unique place and that the name cannot be abused (except by Gallo and a few other reprehensibles in cowboy countries).
I disagree however that the big names charge you double or triple. They spend (apparently sagely) a huge percentage of their income on marketing; the combination of rigorously guarded quality and elephantine marketing assure their dominance in the market for expensive bubbles. But the upcharge is ~20 - 50%, not two to three times.
Dan Kravitz
Mark,
Although my cellar has diminished over the years, if I could go back and redo my cellar, I’d sell almost all of my wine and replace it with Champagne. I find it the most exciting area in wine today. The “grower” champagne movement is outstanding and really interesting to me. I’m less enamored of the big champagne houses but still appreciative of their efforts. Keep trying different producers and enjoy!
Unfortunately, the well-deserved popularity of grower champagnes has meant a corresponding increase in price, and they are no longer selling at a bargain price vis a vis the grand marques.
No, but they’re still much better (in many cases) for the same prices at the entry level and well above.
+1
Yes, I remember walking into a wine store back in early 2000 to buy some of these new “grower Champagnes” I’d heard about. The proprietor was ecstatic that someone knew what they were and was actually taking a few bottles off his hands.
For those discussing other regions coming close to Champagne in quality of sparkling, for my taste the Loire does it best. Huet’s petillant can be the equal of most NV’s IMO. Jura makes a nice product but I don’t see that much and what I’ve had isn’t champagne quality. Either Loire or Jura produces wines more to my style preference than most CA sparklers.
Gotta agree there. I don’t get VC in any of its variations, from basic NV to the super cuvee. It’s just not my bag.
Very good point Tran. I don’t know if the difference is that they hold the wines longer before release, so have a higher holding cost. But I suspect much of it is because they feel they have a marque name so should be able to charge a marque price.
That said, I find champagnes to be much more interesting and flavorful in general than sparkling wines from any other region of France or any other country. They generally have a a mouthfeel and profile that is deeper than the rest.
For QPR, my new house champagne is the Philippe Prie I get from Wines 'til Sold Out. It has an aged profile right from the start, and holds together fine if held for a couple of years. At the usual price of $22.99 or $49.99 for magnums (when they show up), they can’t be beat.
The other QPR I like a lot is the Hiedsieck Monopole “Blue Top”, which can routinely be bought at under $30 with Binny’s.
Not necessarily true. Overall, they are much more variable. On average, that’s a good thing since bad RM juice isn’t in an importer’s portfolio. I’ve had plenty of marginal RM Champagne (lately the NV wines from Hebrart, Pehu-Simonet, and Lallement have underwhelmed). And there will be more consistency among the large houses, especially among NV wines.