Oh man, where should I begin here? For starters, I know this is going to generate a great deal of backlash. I’m 100% okay with that, knowing that what I’m about to say is 100% from the heart, no b.s., totally serious. Over the past few years, I’ve been quite a cheerleader for any and all things Champagne. Looking back, I’m somewhat embarrassed to say my overall impressions have shifted quite dramatically over the past few months. I don’t hate Champagne per say; In fact, some of the most beautiful and haunting wines I’ve every consumed, regardless of style or region, have been recent tastings of '81 Taittinger Comtes and '79 Heidsieck Rare. Those for me, have been high water marks. Outside of those truly divine bottles, I have also had a decent number of respectable prestige Cuvées. Beyond those rare treats, I have found what appears to be nothing more than terrible QPR wines that rely on a healthy sugar dosage to broaden their appeal to Joe and Jane consumer. I know full well that Champagne is France’s northernly most situated wine region. Naturally, this is going to mean thinner grapes and higher acid levels. With that in mind, I still can’t understand how lesser Champagne houses can charge such hefty fees for what is, in my opinion, mediocre juice. I know us Berserkers are an extremely small slice of the larger wine drinking collective. That said, I’m not all that surprised that houses like Pommery and PJ (to name a few) can continue to charge $100+ a bottle on their prestige Cuvées and find buyers all day for them. I personally feel too many Champange houses are resting on their laurels here. With that said, I genuinely applaud all the growers and negociants who truly care about the end quality of their products. Unfortunately, I have become quite jaded over the current state of Champagne. I know I certainly don’t roll in the same financial league as most of the members of this board do. With that in mind, I find very little for a budget oriented Champagne buyer to be excited about here. If for example, we say “budget oriented” is looking in the $40-$50 a bottle range, I believe we are stepping into an utter minefield. For that kind of money, I’m much more enthusiastic of White Burgundy, even accounting for premox. With everything on the table, please remember that I respect everyone’s individual palate and preferences when it comes to wine. My sincere hope is that we can generate an interesting discussion without resorting to childish name calling or mudslinging. Thanks!
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The current state? I’d say things in Champagne are the most exciting they has been for 30+ years.
I know your distribution system is not friendly to pricing, there are a great many fine NV champagnes released for 18-25 euros. I’m talking Peters, Diebolt, Lilbert, Vilmart and can name loads more.
So is the point that there are many, even most producers making disappointing wines, well that’s true all over.
Why not buy a case (minus 1) of Salon for $40 per? Good QPR there.
and Chartogne-Taillet, Jose Dhondt, Charles Ellner, Philipponnat, Legras, many more…
From my standpoint, I’ve found a diverse group of great producers and styles from which to choose in that price range.
Cheers,
Warren
Try some Cedric Bouchard Inflorescence for around $60. There are many other good ones to choose from but this should be a very good beginning.
Isn’t that the wine of which Berserkers tend to claim half the bottles (in a case) are glorious, while the other half are devastatingly underwhelming?
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Pierre Peters…
Mark, you are very obviously drinking the wrong Champagnes. See many threads here for better suggestions, and avoid most (not all) big house bottlings. What you say has far more to do with your own experience than it does with Champagne as a whole. I agree with Russell that the general state of Champagne is more exciting than it has been in quite some time.
Try Deutz.
The 2 houses you mention PJ and Pommery are not wine brands, but lifestyle brands. Their target audience certainly isn’t us. It’s someone celebrating and wants to splurge on something expensive and most importantly a label they and their friends know. The juice is probably made just serious enough to get away with it ( although it has been years since I’ve had either ) and in a masses pleasing style? As many have said look to the growers in the 30-70 range, lots of exciting stuff going on. Once they catch an audience though they sometimes don’t stay in the price range for long, Bouchard I’m looking at you.
I like a lot of the names mentioned but Champagne is hardly QPR territory at US pricing. I don’t agree with the point on consistency of quality though, and as to the use of sugar it seems to be dialed back recently even at big houses.
Thanks to everyone for their sincere and constructive comments thus far.
I want to throw another question out there, as it’s something I’ve been pondering as of late. Now, granted this is not an apples to apples comparison, that said, How do you think White Burg stacks up to Champagne when prices are equivalent for both? I personally feel there is much more QPR to be had in Burgundy on virtually every level.
Mark, if you wish to stay in the Champagne aisle, Binny’s has LOTS of very intriguing RM wines at or below the target price range, and you will see a lot of variety of styles to keep it all interesting. If you venture outside Champagne, you will find decent QPR with other sparkling wine, and you personally may find those wines not too departed from Champagne for your taste.
As far as the pricing of Champagne: Whatever the market will bear. EOS.
Regarding White Burgundy v. Champagne: My personal preference leans toward Champagne given that forced choice. But, as you note, it is not an apples to apples comparison. However, with White Burgundy as with Champagne (as with every wine region), you are going to find good QPR, bad QPR, producers resting on laurels/reputation, etc.
Brad, thanks for the well-reasoned insights. I found it very refreshing.
My problem with white Burgudy is that for me it only becomes worth the price with age. And I’m afraid to age it now.
It can be wonderful when young but there are lots of whites I’d rather drink at lower price points when young.
Re Champagne - like any region you need to know the good producers making wine in a style you like if you want to have a high hit ratio.
While there’s lots of mediocre Champagne out there I don’t buy it any more.
Champagne for me is the single most versatile wine on the planet. Whether it’s Blanc de Blancs or Rosé or the traditional three grape blend, I can find a match for all but really spicy foods.
As for value, it’s largely with the growers, many of whom are making better wines than the big houses are at similar price points. Pierre Peters has already been mentioned, and their wines, from top to bottom of the range, are outstanding, and very fairly priced for their quality. Chartogne-Taillet does incredibly interesting a delicious things, with the Fiacre and the single grape cuvees standing out for me. I could go on and list a whole bunch of growers, but the point is that Champagne is the equal of any great wine in the world to me.
Name any market that is not distinguished by a few true benchmarks, a bunch of good to very good products and a sea of mediocrity. It is true of CA cabs and bdx and burgundy for sure.
I agree with Russell, and frankly I don’t think there is much room for debate. A few decades ago, you had the grand marques and mostly nothing else worth consuming. The absolute explosion of dedicated, quality-focused small producers now has been a revelation, and has forced the marques to up their own game. This is a golden age of champagne in my view
And if you look carefully you can find very fine champagne for less than $30/bottle. It is not today and never will be one of the world’s great wine bargains, but the idea that you have to pay $100/bottle to have a beautiful expression of champagne is just incorrect. (Yesterday, I picked up a 6 pack of Henri Goutorbe Prestige for $28/bottle)
Also, it is worth stepping out of Champagne entirely and into e.g. Crémant de Loire (Saumur!!!), Pétillant de Savoie, Crémant de Jura are all very delicious bubblies, frequently at a fraction of the cost of “Champagne”.
Just to
$60/blt on 2004 Delamotte by a retailer in California. That is some kind of great BdB for the money. Worth every penny.