The WB lately seems to be more about “one upping” each other and bashing opinion rather than expressing ideas about wine.
These are all my opinions. Wine is a food. It also is a drink. it can be drunk with food. It can make you drunk.
I like California Cabernet and Pinot. I don’t like French wine. For the most part, Bordeaux tastes like Merlot to me. Burgundy, I like, but is overpriced.
These are my opinions. There are others who like French wine and think California wine is swill. I don’t say negative things about other people’s opinions. I don’t tell them they are wrong. I don’t complain that their English, posted on a Internet site, and not in a Business document or doctorate dissertation, is not proper.
Some people value my opinion. Others think I am full of it. I don’t think there’s anyone on this board who is so proud that it doesn’t matter to them that when they state their opinion, others bash their opinion. Certainly, why would anyone ever say what they think when all they get in response is that they’re wrong?
I understand that some topics are close to the heart, and others are of lesser importance. I also understand people’s Right to their firm beliefs.
The point is that my guess is that many valuable opinions on this board are not being expressed, and people like me are lurking rather than posting because of the vitriol that is present on the site.
For what it is worth, if you want a place to be able to bash what everyone else says, call the thread or board,Wine Bash? If you want to get someone’s opinion, think twice before you bash. Not everyone here likes French wine, nor is does everyone care what the winemaker at done in their past.
If you like less conflict there are some options out there, but if you think you’ll find better discussion at eBob or WS I think you’re mistaken. I really think “vitriol” is too strong a word for about 99.9% of what goes on here.
You serious Bruce? One prolific poster on this board goes into every burgundy thread to talk about how much French wine sucks. Why is this thread an attack on people who like French wine? Is there someone on this board that goes into every CA wine thread and talks about how much it sucks?
re: winemaker, people should care who they are giving their money or who they are taking money from, whether it be in wine or just in life in general. I’d like to go into it with more detail, but the last thing I want is Todd to be sued for something I’ve said.
The internet brings out people’s inner asshole. People do things on the internet that they would never do face to face because the social consequences are less. In the grand scheme of things this board is probably more civil than the average intenet message board but people are still going to let their demons shine in some manner or another. I know for myself personally I am more apt to be a jerk or say something just to get a reaction if I am having a bad day so I try and give someone else the benefit of the doubt unless its a repeated pattern.
Not only doesn’t everyone here love French wines, those of us who do - particularly the burgdogs - should really shut the hell up about it. Our unceasing proselytization and belittling of other wine regions is causing certain folks - folks who are otherwise perfectly satisfied with RRV Pinot, Napa Cabs, Aussie Shirazes, whatever - to feel the need to “branch out”, to “discover what the fuss is about”, and so on.
Let’s be perfectly plain: the Cote d’Or isn’t getting any larger. There may be oceans of wine pouring out of Bordeaux and Champagne, vast seas of New World Cabernet and Chardonnay, but Burgundy is a rarity. So keep your fracking paeans to its glories well to yourself.
And send a goddam thank-you note to Robert Parker. If not for him, you wouldn’t be able to afford a decent bottle of Burgundy. Which is dirt-water anyway, most of it made with an abundance of weirdo woo-woo that leaves your stems moldy with the remnants of diseased bacteria and goût de doo-doo.
And… you’re driving folks like Bruce off the board, and depriving the rest of us of interesting opinions like “Bordeaux tastes like Merlot”, and “Wine can make you drunk”, and “[I don’t] care what the winemaker at done in their past”. Good stuff.
It’s as simple as that. When someone is in their vehicle for example, which doubles as a weapon, they scream, stick up the middle finger, and go nuts, however if that person stepped-out of their vehicle and relieved themselves of that weapon they would sing a much different tune. Face-to-face all of the internet trolls are generally good-natured people.
It’s up to the ones that can handle this medium respectfully to do so, and not to take life too seriously.
A have received the same feedback from others. Often when I ask why don’t you participate on WB? Their reply mirrors the OPs. They want to talk wine not get into a fight.
I can personally say that some of the AFWE/Purple drink dialogue recently has given me some guidance on new wines to try. In that way, I would say the current state of WB is positive. I take none of it too seriously. For me, being relatively young, wine is a lifelong journey. I expect find wines I love, some that are OK, and some that are crap. These wines will be from all over the world, have different levels of fruit, acid, booze, and wood. The point is that I look forward to trying (almost) them all.
Sure there are some shitheads here, but there are also genuinely nice and sharing people too. Thats the internet! In the middle are a bunch of people trying to add opinions that often get distracted by a cell phone/kids/real job and their post comes across poorly. Meanwhile, there are some rather polarizing ‘human interest’ type discussions that are most likely best had verbally at wine dinners…
While I certainly don’t think there is anything regularly horrid on this board, and I enjoy reading it everyday, I can see Bruce’s point. There is a small cadre of those who seem to be all about showing off the wonderfulness of themselves and their wines which sometimes manifests itself in running down others. I view it more as childish than anything else, but I understand how Bruce could feel otherwise.
o·pin·ion [uh-pin-yuhn]
noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e. based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts.
(1) When people take time to write something on a message board, they (consciously or subsconsciously, and regardless of whether they would admit it or not) want their comment to be noticed. And, in general, cautious, nuanced and moderate statements are a lot less likely to get noticed than strident, forceful and controversial ones. So – often without consciously intending to do so --I think when people communicate over the internet over time, they may tend to be louder, harsher and more extreme than they probably actually are, or would be in a face to face conversation.
(2) Human beings are tribal. Through our history, we’ve banded together in hunting/gathering tribes, cities, nations, and religions. These days, as one example, we unite together as fans of a college football team or NBA team and in opposition to the players and fans of the other team. Or we band together as Republicans or Democrats, conservatives or liberals or libertarians, and identify with our crowd. It’s part of how we’re wired. And on every internet message board I’ve seen, including this one, people tend to sort to some degree in the same fashion into these “tribes.”
I think WB is considerably better on these points than almost everywhere else on the internet that I’ve seen. But WB isn’t at all immune to these impulses. I do think there is a bit of a negative trend at the moment, which is probably what prompted this thread and some other responses I’ve seen recently.
Life is a process. We’re all flawed, and we all have the ability to work on things and to try to improve. I think it would be great if we all took a moment now to reflect on how each of us can make our WB community better, friendlier, more helpful and more fun.
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
are generally good-natured people.![[rofl.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/a/a7452fcd8e675af869f8da01174474a545b03944.gif "rofl"){kind=small}
Same guy who shows up for lunch with a bottle of aged Burgundy ![[oops.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/1/1f129ddad071ffe5db6c99817c3cab666035a70a.gif "oops"){kind=small}