I ask because the model seems to be quite different in Europe than in the US. There are big exceptions in places like Burgundy (and the Rhone), but in the rest of France and in all of Germany, I cannot think of a single “great” wine that was not farmed by the labelled winery. In California there are certainly hundreds of producers doing the same, but there are also many more successful, big-name wineries that purchase grapes in part or in whole than there are in Europe (Co-operatives aside). Don’t get me wrong either: the majority of the Estate-grown wines in Germany, France, Italy or wherever in Europe are nothing special and some are atrocious. But the FINEST wines are almost always from vineyards owned or contracted by the producer. That isn’t always the case in CA.
Doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. I just want it taste good and be a good. Value
Sometimes (most times) it’s better to let the professionals do what they do best, like grow grapes. To your specs of course
It matters a lot to me, although one of my 3 favorite CA producers buys grapes and owns no vines. I do buy some Burgs from the larger merchants, especially Louis Jadot, but I buy only their domaine wines (with a few exceptions). I feel that control of the complete process adds to quality. Especially in Burgundy, I value the philosophy that the vigneron is simply the caretaker of the legacy of the terroirs that they farm. I think that ultimate respect for the land comes through in the wines.
Over the long-term future, CA will move that way too, I predict, for the finest wines.
Estate bottled is almost meaningless in CA because increasingly all wineries are bringing in mobile bottling units to bottle. It simply does not make sense to keep expensive equipment taking up space for a year only to use it 2-3 days. You can bring in pros where bottling is all they do, and get near perfect results every time.
So the question becomes, since every winery that is considered an “estate” can roll in an outside truck to bottle, does that still count as “estate bottled” just because it happened in their driveway, even though the truck came from 20 miles away and none if the equipment is theirs? Not sure. I guess so, but it is not a terribly meaningful statement anymore.
Estate FRUIT is more important I think. But only if the estate is a good one.
Roy: trying to figure out how owning a bottling line is related to using the term “estate bottled”? I would actually posit that “estate bottled” means a whole lot more than any other American labeling regulation out there. Are you sure you understand this rule completely?
I guess I am brain farting and misread the original post. Never mind. Ha!
Estate bottled has nothing to do with who bottles at all. I thought people were talking about WHERE the wine was bottled at, not the label “estate grown and bottled.” Moving on…
Matters to me a lot and I actually have my wine buying spreadsheet color coded to indicate estate driven wineries. Now I still buy from non-estate guys, but I do try to favor the estate guys if all things are equal.
I could be wrong, but it sure seems the estate guys have first crack at the best blocks and know it best. As an example, Hirsch makes their own wine as well as sells grapes to others. If I were Hirsch, I probably would keep the best blocks for myself, right? Although given the evolution of Hirsch that might be a bad example.
I also think you cut out a layer of expenses going estate. And a winery has full vineyard control as an estate, of course.
But, as was pointed out earlier, it’s a double edged sword as there are plenty of estate wineries that aren’t good at doing both farming and winemaking… So the reality is (in my crazy view of the world), there are very few Ted Lemon’s that have the talent to do it all.
You’d best hope there isn’t, methinks. With the ever-rising cost of vineyard land, coupled with the capital-intensive nature of owning a winery, the expense of controlling the whole thing is already prohibitive and getting worse. While it’s a worthwhile goal, I think you’ll see more and more artisinal winemakers buying fruit, especially in their startup days. To do otherwise leads to a proliferation of corporate-owned wine labels, or wineries started only by people who are extremely well-heeled to begin with (think Rhys and Kapcsandy).
A Roy Piper wouldn’t stand a chance and Will Segui would have to find a new dream. I’d rather they have a shot at the adoration that comes from producing a superior product that geeks clamor for.
With some labels, it matters.
Put a Hess Estate Cab alongside the Select Cab.
I don’t think it carries the same cachet it once did, but usually welcome to see.
The bottled, not so much.
It helps in Burgundy if the negociant takes an active part in overseeing the vineyards where grapes are sourced. I know of one smaller operation where the negociant limits the size of the crop and advises the grape grower on when to begin harvest, etc. Also, some of the Oregon Pinot Noirs I like and Russian River Valley Pinots are not vinified by the grape grower but I feel that the winemaker knows the vineyards really well and still takes an artisanal approach to the grapes.
It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. Sonoma County is a great example of an area with an extremely diverse climates (viticulturally, at least), temperature patterns, soils, drainage, wind patterns, etc. Why limit yourself to what your own property gives you? This only makes sense to me if you want to produce one wine.
Who’s to say that “estate” fruit is farmed better than “sourced” fruit? An argument could be made that the incentive for quality is higher for a “grower only” considering their fruit is in a competing market.
Also, who’s to say that the best climate/vines/soil/fruit just happens to be sitting on land owned by a producing winery?
Do we then totally disregard vineyards such as To Kalon?
If Schrader sourced fruit from Harlan Estate, couldn’t they also make a spectacular wine?
To sum up, I never care if it is estate. I go by this:
is the appellation appropriate for the variety?
does the vineyard have a solid reputation?
is the producer conscious about producing the best product possible?
is the winemaker reputable?
That’s it. Estate fruit plays no part in my decision making.
I used to be part of a winery that was the opposite of estate. We purchased every grape we crushed from other people. It was great. We got to work with growers on a long-term basis that saw things as we did - quality was paramount in both grapes and wine. If we got into disagreements with growers over these sorts of things, the agreement would expire, we’d shake hands and move along on our merry ways. We got to develop relationships with guys like Larry Hyde, Lee Hudson, Gary Pisoni, Stu Bewley, Steve Price, etc, etc. They would learn from us and we would learn from them, and get their views (often completely different from one another) on what made a great site and great farming.
Now I am making wines that are only estate. It’s great. I can be at any part of the vineyard I want in the 30 seconds it takes to hop into my truck and get to spend much more time there than when I had to visit 30 different growers all over the northern part of the state. The staff managing the vineyards and the wines knows every inch and every vine of the property and we really fine-tune how we pick and how we farm. The wines are entirely reflective of the vintage and the site - I can’t hedge by picking up some fruit from Coombsville if it’s a hot year or Calistoga if it’s a cool year, or blending to 5% from another place for a single-vineyard wine or adding concentrate or buying bulk wine. What we have is what we have, and we can declassify or include wine but nothing more. 100% of the grapes and wine are grown produced and bottled there and never leave the property until they are bottled and go to market. That’s what “estate bottled” means and the 100% is not negotiable. I find I have gotten to know a vineyard like never before and it’s invigorating as a winemaker. I am having maybe more fun than I ever have in terms of finding that we are getting better and better at what we’re doing. We farm and make wine from a lot of different varieties, some of which would be considered “wrong” for where we are, but we are figuring out via that what really matters in making a wine great. Pinot in Napa for example? Yep…and we’re finding that we can do some really nice things with it.
So, having done both, I would have to say that both really have their strong points. It depends on what you, as a consumer, are looking for and what is important to you. I want to be sure that everyone knows that “estate bottled” has pretty serious connotations that are tough to meet. It’s the only regulation in the US that carries a 100% requirement as far as I know. It’s something that we take great pride in.
As I’ve stated in a couple posts the last two days, this is increasingly the case. The window to get good fruit for the future is closing fast. I see vineyards that were looking for people to buy fruit from them last year that are now locked up for 2-3 more years and having to say “no” to some pretty well known people. Its almost like a mania and panic all in one. I don’t like those kind of markets as an investor because it causes people to make bad business decisions.
With long term contracts and mobile bottling lines the legal use of estate has grown quite a bit and diluted some of the meaning of the word.
Today with the rise of very high quality wines from virtual wineries, those who don’t own a winery or a vineyard, I anticipate to be diluted even further.
In short it does not matter to me for my purchases.
On the other hand a small winery can have a very small carbon footprint and less expenses with vineyard/winery/tasting room all on one site.
I can’t say that it does for me. But, one thing does matter to me for some reason, and that is size. I assue things have a better chance of being better looked after if they are on a smaller scale. This doesn’t always hold water because some mom and pop wineries can’t hold a candle to some larger people that really have things screwed down pretty tightly. But, my assumption is just that and it sticks for some unknown reason.