Does Declassified d'Yquem exist?

WINE TALK
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Not quite 100%, but

"Sauternes Cuvee Prestige de Carbonnieu 2007

15% of the grapes are from the vineyards of top end Château Yquem."


http://www.boroughwines.com/sauternes-cuvee-prestige-de-carbonnieu-2007/

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Borough Wines’ statement says that their wine comes from vineyards bordering on Château d’Yquem, obviously not within the bounds of the estate.

In days past, you usued to see “contigu Yquem” on wine labels, but this is no longer allowed.

Alex R.

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It would make no sense for the premier sweet white of this world to devalue their brand. Maybe distill some for private use …

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This is different than the bottle shot that appears in CT

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I’ve read that Haut Charmes may be made from d’Yquem young vines . That is hinted at by several retailers who carry it - this for example from K&L: “Haut Charmes is a very special Sauternes bottling, made from the younger vines of the region’s most legendary château.” And they follow that with “we aren’t allowed to actually reveal the source” so it’s possible that they don’t know with certainty what the actual source is themselves. But beyond that I have no idea of whether the claims are true.

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Gentlemen, ask Sandrine Garbay! [cheers.gif]

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From what I have tasted, Haut Charmes or Carmes is nothing like Yquem. But even if such an entity did exist, it would be Yquem’s rejects, so why would it be better than say a Climens or Rieussec first wine? I’m sure Yquem produces some (not a lot, but some) crappy wine that for some reason freaked out during fermentation, or was from rotten (grey rot) grapes, or whatever. That they would want to relegate this swill to an anonymous Sauternes bottling is not surprising. That anyone would seek it out, is.

My suggestion is that if you want to try a second wine, there are at least a dozen that I know of that you can try from Climens, or d’Arche, or Rieussec, or others. What I suspect we will all learn is that there is no reason to by a twenty or thirty dollar bottle of second wine sauternes, because the first wines are so cheap to begin with. In several vintages, Climens is as good as Yquem. Sometimes also Rieussec, even Lafaurie Peyraguey beat it in one great vintage and maybe more. I’d spend my money on those before looking at second wines any day.

But yes, you guys are right. The idea of getting Yquem “type” quality for a cheap price is appealing…but I think it is fool’s gold.

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Sorry for the delayed response. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. A friend sent me a link. There is no declassified Yquem that can be purchased.


On my website, this is what we wrote about declassified chateau d’Yquem. Learn about Chateau d'Yquem Sauternes Bordeaux, Complete Guide


“Chateau d’Yquem does not produce a second wine. So, what do they do with the declassified wine? In the past, the chateau sold off the declassified wine, which is produced sold as a generic bulk Sauternes wine. Today, the wine is used to produce a special blend of the declassified d’Yquem that is only available to employees through internal sales.”

Generally speaking, wines are declassified for a reason. They are not that good. I’ve tasted declassified Le Pin, which is sold in Belgium under a different name for about $20, and you can buy better $20 bottles. My advice, look for de Fargues or Raymond Lafon. The wines are outstanding and have connections fo Yquem through ownership and winemaking techniques.

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So it seems there is still the possibility that employees flip their wine and that is what is periodically available through grey markets and accounts for the bottle represented on Cellar tracker. These bottles are indeed completely anonymous and give no indication of what they are, other that “Sauternes”.

True. But they do make another Sauternes from young vines, completely separate vineyard, same team, I believe.

If the d’Yquem team makes a young vine Sauternes then does anyone know what it’s called? I would think that would be readily available info, not an anonymous bottle subject to rumor or speculation.

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Thanks Jeff, I was struggling to remember all the full details here, but was pretty sure this was the case.

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I have been searching on the internet for Declassified d’Yquem and came across this thread. The reason being I have just purchased a case of 6 bottles of 2009 Sauternes Prestige, which is heavily suggesting its from Chateau d’Yquem. Very similiar to this link…

http://www.bordeauxindex.com/offer.php?id=549

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Very happly for your purchase of a case of 6 bottles of 2009 Sauternes Prestige. Have you tried one yet ?

It would be fascinating to drink it side-by-side with the real d’Yuem 2009.

Just curious - where did you see … is heavily suggesting its from Chateau d’Yquem ? [wink.gif]


Those chateaux that do not have a second wine often declassify the production that does not quite make it into the final selection of the Grand Vin. Naturally we cannot reveal the name of the Chateau in question but rest assured that this little beauty will not disappoint! Y QUEstion Me?

The 2009 vintage was a great one for Sauternes, on a par with 2007 and 2001, approachable in its youth but capable of ageing for 30+ years. As Sauternes prices are seemingly ever increasing, this is a refreshing bargain! For example, Chateau D’Yquem 2009 trades at over GBP 5000 per case.

Be YQuick… Don’t miss out!

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Just slightly off point, it’s Château d’Yquem when speaking of the estate, but when speaking of the wine in abbreviated fashion it’s Yquem, not d’Yquem.

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Hi Peter

It’s due to arrive in the next week or so and once we try one I’ll let you know how it goes. I love your idea of trying it alongside a real 2009 Yquem! (Thanks for the correction Frank) If anyone has a bottle and wants to give it a go let me know!! [drinkers.gif]

I have to admit I’m a wine novice but a colleague of mine who has a serious wine habit / cellar recommended this to me as being excellent value when he received an email promotion from the fine wine trader, he has purchased a case as well.

Thanks
Leigh

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Leigh…life is short. Need some adventures.

Hang onto your purchase as it is rare oppertunity to own something like that,specially when price is right. One could easy buy a d"Yguem 2009 but not too often your bottles.

If possible try to find and buy the real declassied juice of d"Yquem ( or a dry version of d"Yquem = Y ) and open 3 of them togather [highfive.gif]

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Did I miss something or is that price £300 in bond for 12 halves? If so, that’s hardly cheap. Climens is available for not much more (and I’m told that 09 Sauternes is moving very slowly in the market due to over-ambitious release prices, so you could probably negotiate that).

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An interesting question. I have visited Yquem several times, including twice this year alone, and have never received a fully informative answer. With that in mind, what follows is pasted from my 8-page profile of Château d’Yquem, which I updated after my most recent visits:

“There is no officially declared second wine at Château d’Yquem, the party line being that lots rejected from inclusion in either Yquem or Y are sold off in bulk, to be blended into generic wines. Despite this rumours continue to circulate that some wines - most notably that known as Château Haut-Charmes - are in fact an unacknowledged second wine for Château d’Yquem. This is something that has, as far as I am aware, neither been confirmed or denied by the Yquem team. On more than one occasion reputable British wine merchants have also marketed a generic Sauternes as declassified Yquem, usually with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink style of marketing, clearly indicating that, even if Yquem is sold off in bulk, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the wine finds its way into a blended generic cuvée.”

Although it certainly isn’t definitive, I think there is enough evidence in the marketplace to conclude - although still with a cynical niggle of doubt in my cases - that these wines are rejected lots from the Yquem vineyard (think of them that way rather than “declassified Yquem”). As such, they should be no more appealing than any other second or third wine, of which in Bordeaux only a few really appeal in my opinion (Petite L’Église, or Pensées de Lafleur, for instance). Second wines from Sauternes are rarely worth it; the first wines are usually, one or two châteaux excepted including Yquem admittedly, very nicely priced and there is no need to go hunting for bargains.

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I’m very much inclined to agree with Chris. My annual experience of tasting the barrels at Climens suggests that rejected lots at any top chateau are unlikely to make a coherent top quality wine. Cypres de Climens is a very good Sauternes approaching second growth quality and well priced but it is nowhere near as good as Climens itself.

The same should follow for Ch d’Yquem. The Sauternais are very skilful blenders, none more so than Francis, Sandrine and their team at Ch d’Yquem but I suggest that is beyond even their talents to create anything much beyond second growth quality from the mixture of young vine and first/last picking lots that would commonly be rejected for inclusion in Yquem itself.

So why pay £25 a half bottle for something unlikely to have the balance required for a good Sauternes when you can take your pick from a range of fantastic smaller producers from the string of recent great vintages? I could name many but if you want Yquem connections then Raymond Lafon at the foot of the Yquem vineyards represents much better value. It is owned by the Meslier family and they use the same principles in their winemaking as Pierre Meslier was manager for Comte Alexander de Lur Saluces for 27 years (see Welcome bordeauxgold.com - Justhost.com.

Yquem is a truly great wine and deserves to stand alone at the very top!

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Agree with the Raymond-Lafon recommendation. Great wines, good value and a nice family running the place as well.

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Keep sleuthing, people, because there will be no 2012 Yquem: