Does Chablis lose terroir with age?

WINE TALK
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Terroir is not a flavor.

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I have primarily had experience with older Raveneau dating back to the late 80’s and all the examples I have had including different 1988’s, 1990’s, 1996’s, 1997’s have been great and they have gained considerable depth which I sometimes feel have disturbed the terroir ( not destroyed it though) which correspond well with your feeling that the wines showed more like Meursault - I just so happen to like this development in Chablis so I just regard it as a positive thing and the Valmur 2000 from Raveneau tasted earlier this year was simply mind-blowing with so much intensity and still great balance and already quite evolved and I think that 10-15 years is the right span to drink these wines to get the full package with tertiary notes but still keeping some of the sharp Chablis focus

23

First of all I feel all wines have a tendency to converge with age (within “peer group”, of course).

My mental representation of Chablis is split in 2 groups based on age: crisp, acidic, lively within the first 4-5 years; evolving towards honey and nutty aromas, richer and heavier afterwards. Depending on the food-wine pairing I have in mind, I’ll go for one or the other. But I feel that the younger versions are a better fit to the expression of Chablis I have in my mind.

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If I had to pare this thread down to one line I’d say: Chablis is meant to be consumed young–maybe.

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I would say most long time serious chablis lovers would say the opposite (which perhaps I am one of). I think you’d find that most would avoid touching their serious PC’s and their GC’s for 6-8 years. Personally I buy some fresh lower level chablis in the more classic years to enjoy young as cellar protectors, but it’s not because the individuality of the the more serious wines disappears later. I certainly think it’s preserved. of course, I rarely would have a goal of keeping wines for 15 or 20 years (although some may be kept that long), as perhaps some of the wine s in the OP’s tasting were.

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6-8 years is what I have planned for the majority of the PC/GC Chablis that I have now - longer++ for some. I do think that there’s an overall loss of a collective tasting experience with older Chablis. 20+ year old GC Puligny bottles - these are around and have been well kept in many cellars when compared to the rare older bottles of Chablis. Does anyone else see the gap here? This will be an interesting segment of my cellar for years to come - to taste and share…

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@ Johnathan I agree if I understand you correctly with 6-8 years from release especially with top-producers? I think 6 years from the vintage is a bit too little with PC and especially GC - of course the vintage can vary a bit but I would say 10 years from the vintage regarding the GC’s and maybe 8 for PC’s?

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This is what I do as well!

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Yep - 8-10 works also. Thinking about the '04s I have in the cellar right now and realizing they’re already 9 years old - YIKES, where has the time gone [wow.gif]. Many of the '04s that I’ve sampled can and will stay resting for a while longer for me- 1) Because they can, and 2) I’ll likely forget about many of them until then anyway :slight_smile:. I don’t want to even bring up the evil PreMox fearing a major thread drift so please ignore that I even said that word! Haaaaaa. I guess at that point (20 or so years out) - “regular” oxidation flavors is what we’re talking about here…

30

Early on in my interest in Chablis/Dauvissat, Vincent D. told me to give his wines a chance to age of at least 10 years from the vintage, to show their worth. I almost always do, as a result.

There are some producers in Chablis I’d be scared to do so with, though.

Here’s a question/thought. I look at Raveneau as the Lafon of Chablis…stylized, appealing early, etc. One thing I’ve always been concerned about with Lafon wines is, as a result, their ability to really age well…after a decade, say. What about Raveneau? There has to be some consequence to their style…though I have no idea what it is.

31

Very interesting to contemplate for sure! The glaring memory of a super '85 Raveneau Clos for me would put away any doubts of how well these wines can age - of course not factoring in vintage differences, etc. I’ve had some very good “older” Lafon bottlings also that were surely thought of as being plump in their youth… In the end, no way to answer the question without cellaring these babies ourselves and sharing with friends - around a table with proper food [cheers.gif]!

32

I have to find a picture of the bottle so I can post it neener…

33

yeah…we all need to be reminded of how good a job Rudy did!!

just make sure you get the bottle to stand still while you’re taking its portrait…

34

I had a bottle of 96 Raveneau MdT a year or so ago that was amazing.

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I understand exactly what Stuart is saying about Raveneau, but I haven’t experienced anything to indicate concern about aging at all myself (although 96 may be the oldest I’ve had in recent memory).

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Hmmm I don’t. Stuart is speculating about a producer without any basis in fact. I’m countering with a personal story refuting his theory. It should also be mentioned that Raveneau has a fantastic record on premox.

38

I was refuting as well. Raveneau does have a somewhat unique ripe, late harvest style in comparison to most other Chablis producers, which would normally give me pause, but the wines have been, and are, wonderful, and hold up well.

39

“I had a bottle of 96 Raveneau MdT a year or so ago that was amazing.”

Yeah, Nick, that certainly "refutes’ my “theory”…wow…“amazing”? What the H does that even mean? “Amazing”, “wow” and “groovy” all convey similar “information” , IMO: nothing.

My “theory” was actually a question. And, that you found a 17 year old “amazing” doesn’t even address my question, let alone “refute” anything. Do you really think it does?

Does anyone have any thoughts/answers to my question? I am genuinely curious about it.

40

Rudy??? Is there a lesson here you want to share?