I often find in Bordeaux, especially on the low end of pricing, a flavor component that can only be described as sour. I also sometimes experience it with Italian Sangiovese, most often when not blended wih any other grapes. Do you find sourness desirable in wine? Thanks.
Acidity? Yes, I like acidity in wine.
Andrew, sour is different from acid. Many Italian wines seem to have this component, as well as syrah. I find a sweet-sour taste quite often in wines that I like, it adds a nice see-saw dimension.
I frequently find a component in Tempranillo that I note to myself as “sour milk”. I wouldn’t use that term in a tasting note, as it is not an accurate characterization. I don’t find that note in other acidic reds like Barbera, Mencia, or even Sangiovese. I think it takes some wood influence to bring it out. I don’t find it desireable.
P Hickner
I drink a lot of Syrah and I can’t recall ever tasting sour notes. Acidity yes, sour no.
If by sour, do you mean light extraction of phenolics that aren’t at full ripeness (but not harsh or extracted enough to come out as ‘greens’)? Some like this since in terroirs that aren’t world class this will help elevate the freshness, as will picking in multiple rounds to capture both ripeness and acidity (hang time and acidity tend to be inverse) without having to shell out big bucks on those said ‘world class terroirs’…
On the low end, it’s more that phenolically those producers just can’t get the ripeness to get those (IMO) flawed flavors to not show through without a level of manipulation that many family owned wineries are not comfortable with… Especially in the EU where those flavors are more tolerated by the masses.
To be more direct, sour notes suck
Bitter is ok here and there. I do not like sour. Not in wine and not in beer.
I like a touch of ‘sour cherry’ when it is an appropriate part of the overall palate of a wine.
Many pinots have a hint of this characteristic.
Perhaps others may consider it more tart than sour, but anyway…
I do consider it tart rather than sour.
You would.
I consider it more sour than tart myself and enjoy it in my pinots as well. I can discern tart from sour and enjoy tart as well when it is attached to a specific fruit descriptor.
Agreed, very different from acdity. I find a disconcerting sour note in alot of Beaujolais.
I love tart cherry in Pinot Noir and Sangiovese. That is not the sourness I referenced. Neither is the grapefruit component in some SLH Pinots, nor any acidity in any un-oaked white wine.
P Hickner
I’m assuming that we’re only speaking of reds here, because IMO whites are very different. I don’t know that I fully understand the distinction being made between sour and tart. Sour is just a function of acidity, right? So maybe if a wine balances sufficient acidity (whatever your threshold) with sufficient material that is pleasantly tart, but if the acids are not buffered by material we perceive them as sour. I have had sour Italian wines, but the first thing that comes to mind is AOC Bourgogne rouge, particularly in a cool vintage. There are times that the acidity is just too screechy and, I guess, perhaps sour.
Note, I actually went and looked up definitions of sour and sourness and they mostly focus on the words acid and tart. So I’m not sure that the English language really recognizes this distinction either. The exception is found in a definition referring to fermented flavors, but then that is something else entirely. I’d be curious what definition one is using of “sour” that doesn’t rely upon the concept of acid or tartness.
it could be the variation of different types of acids within the wine. The sourness i dislike in reds seems to me the closest to lactic acid taste.
One one hand, you can say that sourness is acidity, but as far as taste perceptions goes, you are right. Other components present temper the perception of acidity, sugar and fruit flavors, for example, or complex aromas in coffee.
I’m still speculating that all acids are not the same when it comes to taste. The acidic commonality is the H+ ion, but that is embedded in a much larger matrix.
P Hickner
I find I get a lot of sour milk notes in many chardonnays, almost always on the palate and not the nose. It can be present to the point of distraction!
No it’s not. Unless, we are talking about some level of decay or rancidness in wine, which is something entirely different.
I don’t drink many Chardonnays these days, but I was going to point out Meursault.
P Hickner