Do you buy wine to lay down?

WINE TALK
41

Beautifully said. I will follow this philosophy. I am finding it harder and harder (less and less pleasurable) to drink young wines.

42

Rip Van Winkle was running around doing some errands including dropping off his shoes to be re-soled. Then thunder struck and he went into a deep twenty-year sleep. One of the things he did on his first day after re-awakening was to return to the shoe store, where the cobbler was still there, albeit grizzled and weathered and a little stooped. When Rip walked in, the old cobbler saw him and said, “Oh good you’re here, I was going to call, they’ll be ready Tuesday.”

43

Since good Bordeaux, Burgundy and Barolo are in need of cellaring I wonder if anybody isn´t cellaring these wines. I mean the people here on this board are wine geeks. Does a real wine lover drink young wines only? I can´t imagine this. Depending on the vintage I start drinking my Bordeaux, Barolo, Burgundy and Brunello at age 10. But there are vintages when the wine peak at age 20 or even later. If I realize a wine needs more time I give it to these bottles. I plan to stop buying age worthy wine at age 60 (in 5 years). But with some thousand bottles of wine in the cellar it will be something good on my table until I am gone.

44

The polling suggests over 50% of the people voting on this agree with you.

45

I answered over 20 years, as I love the tertiary nuances of a wonderfully aged Bordeaux. For Chateauneufs, the peak of enjoyment seems to be around 10-15 years for the ones I tend to prefer. That’s why I have a cellar. I also like the youthful exuberance of California Cabernet, Syrah and Grenache at 3-10 years old. On top of that, there are exceptions in each category, which makes the journey and exploration that much more interesting even if at times frustrating.

46

I’ve just started buying wine to lay down over the last couple years and have about half of my small 200 bottle cellar dedicated to long-term aging. I’m relatively young (32) and figure this gets me off to a good start until I can afford to expand the cellar while continuing to fill it up. My long term aging is mostly Barolo and minimal Bordeaux, Burgundy, and CdP, although I’m currently learning more about the French wines to expand those selections.

47

I don’t buy wines specifically for the purpose of laying them down but rather buy wines that I want to consume soon but have the ability to age decently should I not come around to them. Since my collection is mostly sweet wines, this works out decidedly in my favor.

Since I would like to be around and still enjoy my wines, I have expressly passed on the amazing 2011 Vintage Ports for this very reason. I believe that money is better spent purchasing Ports from the 80’s that I can enjoy right now.

On the other hand, I have no problem buying young Sauternes because unlike Port, they can be enjoyed very young in their sweet and fruity stages and though this is still infanticide it isn’t like you’re doing the wine a disservice by drinking it so young.

48

Sixty years old, have bought wine in previous years with the aim of drinking them at the 15-20 year mark. Got started kind of late, so exceedingly grateful for the 2007 red burg vintage in the meantime.

Cheers,
Doug

49

I’m 68, am still buying wines to lay down. I answered my own question ‘11 - 20’ rather than 20+ for several reasons:

  1. I no longer buy the very greatest wines with the greatest aging potential, because I do not care to spend that much money on wines. Over the decades my futures purchases at the top end of Bordeaux have gone from Haut Brion, to Leoville Las Cases, to Domaine de Chevalier (I’m still buying the latter despite the change in ownership and style, and of course am buying Lanessan and others; I am still buying Chateau Palmer because it is for Sally, not me).
    In Burgundy, the comparable steep slope is DRC to Mongeard-Mugneret to de Courcel.

  2. I am not certain that the wines I buy will be as long-lived as the wines I used to buy 30 years ago. I suspect they may be, but am not sure, so purchase accordingly.

I have two sons, both teetotalers, neither with offspring (although grandchildren are not out of the question down the road). I do not buy anything for them. If grandkids appear, I’ll know what to do. Neither of my kids would turn it down, neither has any animus towards wine, for different reasons they prefer not to drink it.

When I pass away (“die”), I will own a lot of wine. If (as likely) Sally survives me, she will drink some, some will be distributed to friends, some may be sold to the benefit of my family and heirs. I do not live in poverty; I see absolutely no reason not to keep buying wine. If all goes well, I hope to enjoy my 2009 Domaine de Chevalier in 2030, when I’m 84. Wasn’t that the title of a Beatles song?

Dan Kravitz

50

I’m new to buy and hold, because I’ve only had a couple wine fridges for storage, and while I dedicated some of that space to some longer term wines (like some Malbec’s that are a little young for my wife and need some time, or an older vouvray that my wife and one bottle of each year), mostly I’ve kept it for drink now stuff, because as I don’t have local store options, I tend to stock up a couple times a year.

So, you have touched on something that I’m still nervous about, and that’s buying older wines, such as port from the '80s or even the '03 vintage. I got burned buying some Bordeaux’s from a local wine store years ago. They were about 10 years old, and all three that I bought, my wife and I tried and poured down the sink. They all tasted like the nastiest smelling dirty socks you can imagine. I didn’t try another Bordeaux for years, until just a year or two ago while traveling in Germany when I had a couple bottles. Since then, I have slowly started to drink them (typically cheaper, drink now varieties that Delta has on their flight or I’ve gotten in Euro restaurants).

I’m not sure if the dirty socks was from the wine being improperly stored (they were upright on a retail shelf covered in a layer of dust when I bought them, who knows how long they were like that and I didn’t know to ask/be wary back then) or if it was TCA/Brett that I’ve read about.

Regardless of what happened to those bottles, I’ve now been gun shy about buying older wine.

Now that I’m about to have a cellar in my almost completed new home, I really want to buy young wines that need to be cellared for years/decades, as well as buying some older wines that can either be drunk now or allowed to age some more, as you describe doing.

Since I don’t have many local (“local” is pushing 2 hours away) buying options, I buy most of my wine from Brown Derby and have it shipped when it’s not too cold or hot. I’ve yet to have any bad ones, but have mostly (with a few exceptions) bought wines within 1-3 years of their release date.

So, how concerned should I be about buying 10, 20, 30 year old wines?

51

Dan,

no, Mc Cartney sang 64. But I really hope you can enjoy the 2009 Chevalier in 20 years :slight_smile:

52

Dan,
well said and oerhaps your boys change their minds sometime. Have seen it with my daughter recently. A champagne sipper for years she has now developed a growing interest in wine and I hope for more. I’ve always said that I see a wine cellar as multi generation project and I believe that only first class provenance and cellaring can guarantee the highest pleasure level. I’m sure that the formidable bottle of Caronne St. Gemme 1982 we had lately was a product of early buying and careful cellaring. These bottles are for me the greatest highlights of a wine lovers life. Good luck with your Domaine de Chevalier 2009, bought it myself too but took care to have some halves as well. Have a good and healthy 2015.
Still remember the old saying: better to have something you don’t need as to need something you don’t have. And when in 2054 you turn 104 you will know why you have bought wines in 2010 for cellaring [welldone.gif]
Cheers
Rainer

53

I belong to a wine club and several mailing lists, so most of what I purchase is recent vintages. Therefore, I’m cellaring most of what I purchase. I have yet dive into the aged Bordeaux and Burgundy market, but I suspect that will come in time.

54

I’m in my mid 50’s. I bought a lot (for me) of 2009 Bordeaux’s and almost no 2010’s, based on when they are expected to hit their prime drinking window’s.

55

Like some others who have posted, I rarely buy wines for long term aging today, although there are a few exceptions where habit has leaped beyond reason (e.g I still buy some La Tache each year).

My cellar in Edmonton holds wines that have aged gracefully over the years, so I still have a good source in house to choose an older Bordeaux for those occasions that warrant. It is also fun to give someone a bottle for their birth year or anniversary year when I can manage that. Earlier this Fall I drew a bottle of 1942 Castillo d’Ygay Reserva Especial to celebrate the birthday with a friend who was born that year. Alas, it was my last bottle, but it was absolutely stunning.

I have not bought any Bordeaux for the past 20 years or so, and haven’t bought red Burgundies since the 2005 vintage (other than those small purchases of La Tache and DRC Echezeaux). My current purchases are for nearer term drinking, and a lot are whites, including White Burgundy, others from Argentina(red), Caifornia(red and white), Italy(red) and Australia(red).

The cellar is gradually dwindling in size, but there is still a sufficient quantity for some years to come.

Had some trouble answering the poll, so posted as up to 5 years for want of a more specific description of my current purchasing.

Hank [cheers.gif]

56

At 52, I struggle with the optimal balance. I am pretty sure my palate will make it to 65 in about the same shape it is in today. However, (and I am asking this seriously) does one’s palate begin to decline with age at some point?

True you might make it to 84 and that 30 y.o. bordeaux will be singing, but does one get the same flavor and/or pleasure with a 30 y.o. bordeaux at 84 as one does at 54? Should that impact strategy?

KJF

57

I wonder the same thing, Kent. I figure I can sell my perfectly stored 30-50 year old Bordeux if I don’t like it any more when I’m in my 80s, and buy some intense young New World stuff with $$ left over if that’s all my faded senses can appreciate.

58

I haven’t read the whole thread, but are there any people who post here who don’t buy wine to lay down? I’d be shocked if that were the case. And I don’t understand the poll. I buy wine to lay down for so long as it takes for them to mature.

Based on the OP, I am confused.

59

Neal,
There are so many auctions that you could easily have no cellar and drink always wines fully mature.
It requires a different organisation, but it is possible.

60

I voted 11-20 as I do buy wines that hopefully will be perfect at that age. Buying anything that needs more time will be wasted on me by the time it reaches maturity.
Most wine I buy is consumed within 10 years, though, regardless of what the original intension was in terms of saving it.