Do organic wines taste better?

WINE TALK
1

Because of disappointing experiences I’ve had as a consumer, I tend to be wary of organic and biodynamic wines, but try to keep an open mind :slight_smile:.

Explanation: I prefer what I put into my body to be healthy, and can fully understand the reasoning behind the organic movement. However, I am more than a little sceptical when I hear that organic wines are not only healthier, but also taste better.

Once again, perhaps this is true. An article in the most recent Revue de Vin de France was adamant about this, and said that Mosanto’s roundup could be detected in wine by experienced tasters…

My question is: has any serious study with statistically significant samples ever been made to show one way or the other?

Best regards,
Alex R.

2

I would call BS on that assertion.

You should distinguish between wines made from organically-grown grapes and organically/biodynamically made wines.
And it’s been stated that organically-grown grapes display the wine’s terroir better. Another BS assertion I think.
Tom

3

Organic wines tasting better? I would doubt that very much, and tasting pico-molar quantities of pesticide residues, well you have to have a really awesome palate!

However, with biodynamic wines I have heard critics and producers suggest that they can have extra freshness, especially in riper, hotter years.

In general though, producers who take the care to be attentive in the vineyard, with vines that don’t rely on a chemical crutch etc may produce ‘better’ wine than those with a more industrial mind-set or at the least wines that may be more expressive of site and vintage.

But from my personal perspective, choice to prioritize organic and biodynamic wines for my cellar is based on environmental and ecological concerns rather than because ‘they taste better’. But of course I choose producers whose wines I like!

4

Serious study. I’m really doubtful such a thing has been done, and even if it had, one would need to look at the funding of it (e.g. marketing body for organic wines or similar for the suppliers of non-organic treatments).

Running a simple comparison is almost impossible, as you’d ideally need a chequerboard arrangement of a vineyard to apply organic / non-organic treatments to negate the effect of terroir, but if spraying, then cross-contamination is a given.

Running before / after trials runs up against vintage variation

Then there are variables it’s difficult to precisely replicate from picking through to finished wine

Then the clincher - the old chestnut of how do you measure quality. Blind taste tests are an option, but our palates differ, so the result is merely representing what those judges thought, not a meaningful measure of quality.

So I’d be surprised (and very doubtful) if there were any scientific studies that would survive peer group review.

What could be tested, I suspect quite easily, is that assertion of the level of roundup compared to human perception levels for it.

Now to the anecdotal experience. I’m sure there are many wines grown organically that you love, but the almost certain reality is, that it will not mention organic on the front label, and almost as certainly on the back (though those paying for certification may have the logo to show this).

I’m also pretty sure that the ones you tried with ‘organic’ proudly displayed on the front label have been very disappointing. The sad reality is that there is a market for the branding ‘organic’, where the quality comes behind preserving that brand, plus getting enough volume to make the product profitable. Interest / quality are no more the focus than other commodity / heavily branded products. These wines are really a variant on the Gallo / 2 buck chuck, just aimed at a specific but reasonably numerous subset of those that see wine the same as other commodities.

Conversely those that quietly follow organic / BD (and let’s extend this to Lutte Raisonee), are people who do so simply because they are looking for ways to improve their wines. It may be successful or otherwise, but their willingness to try what they can to improve them, seems likely to extend to their whole approach, and that suggests someone putting quality much higher in their priorities.

Regards
Ian

5

Not having done an organized survey, I would have to say that organic wines don’t taste any better. In some instances, they taste worse.

6

I’ve only had Monsanto’s Chianti Classico Riserva, never the Roundup.

I have tried several different Ports from Dow, though.

7

[thumbs-up.gif]

8

Of course! You can’t taste the pesticides in organic wines. [cheers.gif]

9

I find that I have come to expect the taste of pesticide in wines I enjoy, much like the strong taste of butter and oak in chardonnay. When the pesticide residue isn’t there the wines just don’t have the flavor profile that I prefer.

10

healthier vines and vineyards make better tasting wine, more consistent and more able to withstand vintage difficulties, just as dry farmed vineyards can better handle drought. I’ve never thought about whether or not I’d taste the pesticide or not.

11

Once upon a time they were all organic.

12

There’s no way you could control the variables to test this. Maybe if one producer split a small vineyard and farmed one half organically and the other with pesticides, and otherwise made the wines identically, then you did a bunch of blind tastings?

It’s never happening. Just evaluate wines one at a time based on your criteria and priorities.

(But if you did that experiment, I’d say 50-1 odds tasters don’t consistently find a difference and prefer the organic side.)

13

Doesn’t it depend on what kind of day you drink it on? newhere

14

This might be my favorite thing ever posted on this board!

15

I have an organic garden. I collect rain water to eliminate chemicals from city water. Not sure what flavors the pond scum and insect life add to the vegetables.

16

Awesome!

17

Nah, it’s easy. Just keep increasing the concentration of Roundup until at least half the subjects can detect it in AAB tests a statistically significant percentage of the time.

What’s the problem?

18

Wines that are marketed as organic are more likely to be crap. It’s a statement that the prime incentive is to be organic rather than make great wine.

Even getting certified is a bit of a red flag in regard to priorities. Some of what is allowed isn’t great. Following a check list is not a substitute for understanding. With good understanding comes the realization that a rare non-organic intervention may sometimes be the best course of action, with negligible impact on soil health.

The checklist followers often engage in negligent practices harmful to soil health that don’t involve toxins.

There are plenty of studies on the soil web, and on microbial activity on the grape surface. There are real life examples of vineyards being transformed or brought back with a high level of understanding of these things being put into practice.

19

Some areas are better suited to organic or biodynamic farming than others are so its hard to make a blanket statement. I know the owners of a vineyard/winery in Maryland that had planed to go biodynamic until it faced its first Japanese beetle infestation. There just isn’t an organic/biodynamic approach for control of Japanese beetles. They still use a sustainability approach as much as is practical but to attempt to force organic or biodynamic on this vineyard would reduce quality.

20

DE will kill them and it’s OMRI listed.