Do Burgundy lovers like Piedmonte?

[M_Hudson]

@P Intag

Okay people, let’s get this straight. It’s either Piedmont (in English) or Piemonte (in Italian). It is NOT Piedmonte. There is no such place.

Tell me, do you ever post about wine? Or just others grammar, sentence structure, and spelling?

[JasonE]

Not to hijack the thread, but what barolo/barberesco producers are considered more traditional in style? Modern?

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

I can also agree with the old Hermitage/Cote Rotie crowd here, although I wonder whether one gets the Burgundy effect as often with those wines as with old Nebboli. That said, I am betting against your old SQN Syrahs tasting anything remotely like Burgundy, EVER, regardless of how cleverly it is named, how artful its label and how many pounds its bottle weighs…

[Claude_Kolm]

René Rostaing says that he prefers to drink his Côte-Rôties at between 5 and 10 years of age because after that all top red wines resemble one another. I think there are significant differences that remain, especially in texture and weight. With some friends, we did a Nebbiolo/Burgundy comparison some years ago and the finesse of the Burgundies could not be matched by the Baroli and Barbareschi. If you’re going to serve both at the same meal, do the Nebbiolo-based wines first (except possibly for Monvigliero).

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

@Jay Miller

I like Piedmont very very much, but when it comes to love for red wines outside of Burgundy I am more likely to look the Loire, N. Rhone, old style Riojas and (I realize this puts me in a substantial minority) Tuscany. Sangiovese from a non-modernist producer and some age on it has a beauty that I respond to more intensely than I do to a great Barolo.

Would you be willing to name one or two of your favored Sangiovese wine makers?

[Rick_Gregory]

This thread is funny because my Burg loving friends and I all like… Barolo/Barbaresco and… N Rhones. They’re not the same as Burg of course, the Rhones generally being more fruit dense and the Piedmontese wines usually being more tannic young. But I think what all three have in common is that they’re Nose wines, not so much Palate wines.

By Nose, I mean that people for whom the aromatic qualities are more important than palate density are usually fans of these regions, but less of of US Cab, Bordeaux, etc where as people who are Palates (who prize fruit concentration, size, density etc usually love those). None of my friends or I exclaim about how big, dark, concentrated wines are. We instead talk about the intensity or complexity or character of the aromas of a wine and all three of these regions are more about those qualities than others and all of them, when on, have bewitching aromas.

[RyanC]

@Rick Gregory

This thread is funny because my Burg loving friends and I all like… Barolo/Barbaresco and… N Rhones. They’re not the same as Burg of course, the Rhones generally being more fruit dense and the Piedmontese wines usually being more tannic young. But I think what all three have in common is that they’re Nose wines, not so much Palate wines.

By Nose, I mean that people for whom the aromatic qualities are more important than palate density are usually fans of these regions, but less of of US Cab, Bordeaux, etc where as people who are Palates (who prize fruit concentration, size, density etc usually love those). None of my friends or I exclaim about how big, dark, concentrated wines are. We instead talk about the intensity or complexity or character of the aromas of a wine and all three of these regions are more about those qualities than others and all of them, when on, have bewitching aromas.

I couldn’t agree more.

[Scott_Brunson]

@Ryan Caughey

@Rick Gregory

This thread is funny because my Burg loving friends and I all like… Barolo/Barbaresco and… N Rhones. They’re not the same as Burg of course, the Rhones generally being more fruit dense and the Piedmontese wines usually being more tannic young. But I think what all three have in common is that they’re Nose wines, not so much Palate wines.

By Nose, I mean that people for whom the aromatic qualities are more important than palate density are usually fans of these regions, but less of of US Cab, Bordeaux, etc where as people who are Palates (who prize fruit concentration, size, density etc usually love those). None of my friends or I exclaim about how big, dark, concentrated wines are. We instead talk about the intensity or complexity or character of the aromas of a wine and all three of these regions are more about those qualities than others and all of them, when on, have bewitching aromas.

I couldn’t agree more.

+2

[Rasoul_Salehi]

@Ken V

Some Burgundy lovers are sophisticated enough to like the wines of Piedmont, and some are not.

[John_Oglesby]

@Scott Brunson

@Ryan Caughey

@Rick Gregory

This thread is funny because my Burg loving friends and I all like… Barolo/Barbaresco and… N Rhones. They’re not the same as Burg of course, the Rhones generally being more fruit dense and the Piedmontese wines usually being more tannic young. But I think what all three have in common is that they’re Nose wines, not so much Palate wines.

By Nose, I mean that people for whom the aromatic qualities are more important than palate density are usually fans of these regions, but less of of US Cab, Bordeaux, etc where as people who are Palates (who prize fruit concentration, size, density etc usually love those). None of my friends or I exclaim about how big, dark, concentrated wines are. We instead talk about the intensity or complexity or character of the aromas of a wine and all three of these regions are more about those qualities than others and all of them, when on, have bewitching aromas.

I couldn’t agree more.

+2

I also wholeheartedly agree.

There clearly is something to having “camps”, per se. I once had a roommate who drank nothing but Napa Cab, Washington and Bordeaux, and scoffed at the notion of Pinot, Rhone, and probably never even heard of Piemonte (I kid, he knew of them, I just don’t think he ever enjoyed them).

That said, I am a firm believer in that those that love Napa, will more than likely love Bordeaux and Washington and have a passing fancy in Rioja, Bolgheri and Brunello di Montalcino. These wines have a lot in common with each other in aromatics, depth, and texture, so it’s only logical they all would have the same following.

[Scott_Brunson]

@Rasoul Salehi

@Ken V

Some Burgundy lovers are sophisticated enough to like the wines of Piedmont, and some are not.

Some “Burgundy lovers” aren’t sophisticated enough REALLY to like the wines of Burgundy!
(members of this board excluded of course)

[Joongul_Lee]

@Jay Miller

I like Piedmont very very much, but when it comes to love for red wines outside of Burgundy I am more likely to look the Loire, N. Rhone, old style Riojas and (I realize this puts me in a substantial minority) Tuscany. Sangiovese from a non-modernist producer and some age on it has a beauty that I respond to more intensely than I do to a great Barolo.

I agree. To me, Montevertine is much closer to Burgundy in spirit than many from Piemonte/N. Rhone.

[Sanjay_Nandurkar]

@Rick Gregory

This thread is funny because my Burg loving friends and I all like… Barolo/Barbaresco and… N Rhones. They’re not the same as Burg of course, the Rhones generally being more fruit dense and the Piedmontese wines usually being more tannic young. But I think what all three have in common is that they’re Nose wines, not so much Palate wines.

By Nose, I mean that people for whom the aromatic qualities are more important than palate density are usually fans of these regions, but less of of US Cab, Bordeaux, etc where as people who are Palates (who prize fruit concentration, size, density etc usually love those). None of my friends or I exclaim about how big, dark, concentrated wines are. We instead talk about the intensity or complexity or character of the aromas of a wine and all three of these regions are more about those qualities than others and all of them, when on, have bewitching aromas.

Interesting concept. Which regions cluster together based on factor analysis Nose vs Palate

[Efrain_Rodriguez]

@M Hudson

@P Intag

Okay people, let’s get this straight. It’s either Piedmont (in English) or Piemonte (in Italian). It is NOT Piedmonte. There is no such place.

Tell me, do you ever post about wine? Or just others grammar, sentence structure, and spelling?

Clarification noted. Guess that’s why I lost out in the grade school spelling bee!

Seriously this is more form than content and does not add value to the discussion…I’ll probably mispell Piedmonte again in the future but that’s irrelevant to the discussion or learning more about wine.

[Nigel_Bruce]

I asked this question of Allen Meadows and he shook his head. He expressed no objective comment or criticism, just indicated it wasn’t for him.

[Rick_Gregory]

@Efrain Rodriguez

I’ll probably mispell Piedmonte again in the future…

[Guillaume_Deschamps]

I also like Northern Rhône, especially Côte-Rôtie, a lot more than Nebbiolo-based wines at the moment actually.

The obvious commonality is of course that they are all cold climate wines (for their respective areas). Ask any French person and they will tell you that the whole of Italy is a) southern than France and b) always sunny and warm. Needless to say these 2 preconceptions took a hard hit the first time I visited Piedmont in all its misty glory. It’s still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that Barolos and Northern Rhônes are produced roughly around the same latitude.

The cold climate (and in the case of e.g Pinot Noir and Nebbiolo, the grapes as well) ensure a hefty dose of acidity in the finished product. People drawn to these wines will also tend to be naturally drawn to other cold climate reds such as Loire or Switzerland, as well as whites with the same characteristics (white burgs, champagne, alsace, germany, switzerland, austria). That shouldn’t come as a shock, and I’d say that’s a pretty well-tested theory.

My take has always been that the world of fine wine lovers is (generally speaking, of course) cut in two halves: the “palate” people (who focus more on structure, mouthfeel and so on) and the “nose” people (who focus more on aromatics). In my mind the “palate” people are Bordeaux & Southern Rhône lovers, as well as e.g. Languedoc-Roussillon, Spain, Southern Italy, Australia. The “nose” people are Burg lovers, Northern Italy, Northern Rhône, Loire, etc.

[Ignacio_Villalgordo]

Yes, and also German Riesling, Jura, old Rioja, Sherry, traditional rhone, mature Bordeaux, old Port and Madeira, …

[John_Morris]

@Guillaume Deschamps

I also like Northern Rhône, especially Côte-Rôtie, a lot more than Nebbiolo-based wines at the moment actually.

The obvious commonality is of course that they are all cold climate wines (for their respective areas). Ask any French person and they will tell you that the whole of Italy is a) southern than France and b) always sunny and warm. Needless to say these 2 preconceptions took a hard hit the first time I visited Piedmont in all its misty glory. It’s still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that Barolos and Northern Rhônes are produced roughly around the same latitude.

The cold climate (and in the case of e.g Pinot Noir and Nebbiolo, the grapes as well) ensure a hefty dose of acidity in the finished product. People drawn to these wines will also tend to be naturally drawn to other cold climate reds such as Loire or Switzerland, as well as whites with the same characteristics (white burgs, champagne, alsace, germany, switzerland, austria). That shouldn’t come as a shock, and I’d say that’s a pretty well-tested theory.

My take has always been that the world of fine wine lovers is (generally speaking, of course) cut in two halves: the “palate” people (who focus more on structure, mouthfeel and so on) and the “nose” people (who focus more on aromatics). In my mind the “palate” people are Bordeaux & Southern Rhône lovers, as well as e.g. Languedoc-Roussillon, Spain, Southern Italy, Australia. The “nose” people are Burg lovers, Northern Italy, Northern Rhône, Loire, etc.

I think you’re right that it’s the acidity and aromatics that link Burgundy and Piemonte. As a Northern Rhone lover, I see the affinity there, too, with Burgundy with age. They are all wines that (I assume because of their acidities) flesh out and become fruitier with age. Obviously nebbiolo has tannins on a level not even approached in Burgundy and the Rhone.

I wouldn’t contrast nebbiolo lovers with people who love structure and mouth feel, because nebbiolo can have those in spades. I would say that people who like Burgundy and Piemontese wines enjoy more tannin and acidic structure relative to the fruit, at least in the wines’ early years.

Three or four years ago, I had fun serving this flight of 1999s blindly:
– Produttori Barbaresco normale
– Monthelie-Duhairet Volnay-Champans
– Mastrojanni Brunello
– Lopez de Heredia Rioja (can’t recall which vineyard)

The first three were remarkably similar and very few people could peg them. The Produttori had begun to open up but was still loaded with structure. The Volnay is in a very traditional, structured style and was very young, so it was much more masculine that you’d expect from a Volnay. And the Brunello was so refined it fit right in. All had intriguing, not-yet-mature aromatics. Even knowing which was which, I was amazed at the similarity. (The oxidative notes on the LdH made it the outlier.)

[Sanjay_Nandurkar]

@John Morris

@Guillaume Deschamps

I also like Northern Rhône, especially Côte-Rôtie, a lot more than Nebbiolo-based wines at the moment actually.

The obvious commonality is of course that they are all cold climate wines (for their respective areas). Ask any French person and they will tell you that the whole of Italy is a) southern than France and b) always sunny and warm. Needless to say these 2 preconceptions took a hard hit the first time I visited Piedmont in all its misty glory. It’s still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that Barolos and Northern Rhônes are produced roughly around the same latitude.

The cold climate (and in the case of e.g Pinot Noir and Nebbiolo, the grapes as well) ensure a hefty dose of acidity in the finished product. People drawn to these wines will also tend to be naturally drawn to other cold climate reds such as Loire or Switzerland, as well as whites with the same characteristics (white burgs, champagne, alsace, germany, switzerland, austria). That shouldn’t come as a shock, and I’d say that’s a pretty well-tested theory.

My take has always been that the world of fine wine lovers is (generally speaking, of course) cut in two halves: the “palate” people (who focus more on structure, mouthfeel and so on) and the “nose” people (who focus more on aromatics). In my mind the “palate” people are Bordeaux & Southern Rhône lovers, as well as e.g. Languedoc-Roussillon, Spain, Southern Italy, Australia. The “nose” people are Burg lovers, Northern Italy, Northern Rhône, Loire, etc.

I think you’re right that it’s the acidity and aromatics that link Burgundy and Piemonte. As a Northern Rhone lover, I see the affinity there, too, with Burgundy with age. They are all wines that (I assume because of their acidities) flesh out and become fruitier with age. Obviously nebbiolo has tannins on a level not even approached in Burgundy and the Rhone.

I wouldn’t contrast nebbiolo lovers with people who love structure and mouth feel, because nebbiolo can have those in spades. I would say that people who like Burgundy and Piemontese wines enjoy more tannin and acidic structure relative to the fruit, at least in the wines’ early years.

Three or four years ago, I had fun serving this flight of 1999s blindly:
– Produttori Barbaresco normale
– Monthelie-Duhairet Volnay-Champans
– Mastrojanni Brunello
– Lopez de Heredia Rioja (can’t recall which vineyard)

The first three were remarkably similar and very few people could peg them. The Produttori had begun to open up but was still loaded with structure. The Volnay is in a very traditional, structured style and was very young, so it was much more masculine that you’d expect from a Volnay. And the Brunello was so refined it fit right in. All had intriguing, not-yet-mature aromatics. Even knowing which was which, I was amazed at the similarity. (The oxidative notes on the LdH made it the outlier.)

Broadly speaking if one were to plot Finesse vs Structure for Piedemont and Burgundy, Piedmonte would have more of the latter and Burgundy excelling in the former trait. Akin to Burgundy, different sites such as may have quite distinct traits to others eg Asili vs Montefico.