I take it you didn’t find any flavors imparted by the Diams.
Have numerous Bouchard/Fevre 2008 wines under Diam. All have been in excellent condition.
But then I’ve had numerous Austrian Rieslings under screwcap that were older than that, and also in perfect condition. I’d prefer every bottle I own to be a Bordeaux bottle closed with screwcap.
David,
I certainly am not trying to evade anything - I just don’t think that there are ‘definite’ answers or everyone would move to one specific closure.
I have had beautifully made wines only to be ‘ruined’ by all closures - and that sucks. Each closure has its ‘advantages’ and some potential ‘disadvantages’:
We all know that wines bottled under natural cork have the longest track record of ‘age-ability’, but not without potential problems of TCA and random oxidation
We all know that DIAMs offer the ‘look and feel’ of natural cork, use natural cork, and remove the possibility of TCA but do not have the track record that natural corks do so there is still some trepidation
We all know that screw caps have become ‘accepted’ by most for wines meant to be consumed earlier rather than later, and the jury is still out whether they truly ‘stand the test of time’, though there are plenty of anecdotal tales from down under of them allowing for aging and development of both whites and reds for decades. There are still question marks about random reduction issues as well.
I wish I had something more ‘concrete’ to add to the discussion, but I really do not. I simply like to stay involved and offer any insight that I can - and I apologize if it’s coming off anything differently than that.
Cheers.
So what specific wine have you had that was ruined by DIAM?
David,
I had a ‘corked’ champagne that was bottled under DIAM - and yep, it was definitely corked. I’ve had a few ‘oxidized’ wines under DIAM - no way to know whether it was the closure or the winemaking or the provenance. I have not had a wine under DIAM older than about 6 years so I to am curious how they age.
Cheers.
But was that Champagne cork the same construction? I ask because I have never, ever seen a DIAM Champagne cork.
Yes . . .
Diam makes a champagne cork as well…I forget what they call it. TCA can get into a wine in the cellar. Also, reduction can sometimes be confused with TCA…the rule is that TCA gets worse with air time, reduction gets better (reduction reduction!).
Fevre has been working with Diam since ~2003…initially internal tests (bottles from their entire line up under Diam). They released their chablis and petit chablis with Diam starting in ~2004. Then 1er cru in 2007. Then grand cru in 2010. I can’t think of a more transparent wine (to off flavors) than chablis. It was 6+ years of internal testing & released product before Fevre decided to use it on their Grand Crus. Does anyone really think that the folks at Fevre wouldn’t notice a Diam off flavor in that time. Does anyone think there would have been the fairly wide spread adoption of Diam within Burgundy if there were a Diam off flavor. We think they’d miss that and yet still be able to make subtle nuanced wines? Maybe these are russian bots sowing discord here!
Yes, but it’s not (insert wine name here). And only with controlled testing of (insert wine name here) over a period of (insert arbitrary, long time period here) will (insert poster’s name here) be satisfied!
Mytik is the Diam Champagne cork.
We import thousands of cases a year of a quality Prosecco much of which is closed with Mytik, I’ve never had a corked bottle.
Diam makes two different Diam 5 closures with different oxygen transmission characteristics, if reduction is a problem.
Interesting, and thanks for noting this. I had a domestic Pinot (2010) the other night, that at first was ok, but not great. As I consumed the bottle, something seemed amiss. Drank half the bottle, and finished it the next night, although I should have dumped it. By the time I finished the bottle, I was convinced it was corked. The longer it took to drink, the more the taste and smell came through.
I have been doing trials with DIAM for 10+ years now. Absolutely love them. Using both the 10 and 30 Origine (Natural bees wax version). I find the wines to show much more consistant vs natural cork and haven’t had any early reductive issues. With that said, I do believe screw caps are ultimately the best closure.
Recently listened to this. A lot of interesting information and perspective, from the inventor/developer himself.
Since we’re on the subject, I’d like to recommend Jamie Goode’s book Flawless-understanding faults in wine. It’s a deep dive, but very informative.
From the POV of somebody who imports or sells wine, Oliver has it right. He doesn’t have to worry about dealing with customers complaining about corked bottles. He doesn’t have to check bottles before heading out to sell.
As I said before, Uvaggio has been using these things since the middle of the last decade.I just found a bottle of 2009 Uvaggio Vermentino in the cellar. I’ll open it and see how it is doing.
Should TCA get worse with air time or just more apparent?? The level shouldn’t change.
Great to hear!
Certainly, it often or typically becomes more apparent. Often I’m unsure when a wine is first poured and the TCA becomes unmistakeable after a while. No idea how the concentration could increase so perhaps it’s slow to evaporate or something.
2007 Antonio Vallana e Figlio Gattinara
Had it in 2017. My TN indicates a pleasant primary/tertiary mix. I never had this wine in its youth, so it’s just a data point without context. unfortunately, I did not note which Diam it was.
I had a corked bottle of Mumm Blanc de Blancs a couple weeks ago, and it had a Diam closure. Granted, Mumm is a cheap wine, but the closure doesn’t know that.