Larry,
It would be great to hear more on your thoughts on this. I’ve always generalized, based on my experience, that wines raised in concrete and neutral oak were more accessible early on than ones raised in new oak. Especially toastier new oak, which seems to be more favored in the Napa wines I’ve had. I picked up some No. 17 partially due to thinking it would present less of that in your face toast early on.
Indeed, you beat me to it! It does seem like a solid conjecture.
While I do find the idea that it’s two different labels compelling from dN’s description, I couldn’t find any winemaker that fit the bill for designing both. That’s not to say he/she doesn’t exist, but the information doesn’t appear to be out there.
As for Nicholson Jones, I couldn’t find any reason to eliminate it. dN’s language is loose enough where the “clients” could fit one or two labels.
Glad to have someone independently draw the same conclusion!
I have a cell phone because my daughters insisted that I have one, and bought me one. I look at it once or twice a week, sometimes less. If I thought there would be text notifications, I might make a practice of carrying the device around. I don’t think I’ll be buying anything more other than WV Pinot, and a WA State blend if it comes up.
Unclench. You’re being way too sensitive. Quit beating your chest and telling people to foe you if they don’t like what you’re saying, which is frankly far more annoying than anything the person you’re complaining about is doing.
I don’t need to use the foe feature because I can moderate myself and my responses just fine without it. But if it will spare us the unnecessary snark, please feel free to take your own advice. Airlift, air freight, what’s the difference? You understood what he meant.
I knew what he meant, but they aren’t the same thing. Sorry. Personally, I’d want to be told if I was using a term incorrectly. I don’t have anything to say beyond that.
FWIW, if you use google chrome: I just added the extension Mobile Text Alerts for Gmail by cloudHQ - Chrome Web Store - easy to set up, and set one rule for emails from support@denegoce.com to send to SMS, so I don’t have to watch so carefully now.
You can also do this in gmail by setting up a filter that forwards your mail from denegoce to SMS. For verizon it’s (your 10-digit phone number)@vtext.com, most likely other carriers have a similar thing.
Thanks Chris - that’s actually cleaner than the extension, since I was already getting multiple SMS’s for old emails sitting in my inbox.
Larry, I’d be really interested in your thoughts about this as I’m using the percentage of new oak as one of variables indicating the quality of the wine given that a tight grain French barrel can be Euro 1,000, a medium grain French barrel Euro 800 and American oak often USD 500-600 per barrel. I’m thus assuming that the de Négoce offerings with a lot of new oak are likely the premium offerings and that these are the ones that will need longer time to come together.
To me, there seems to be a correlation between less oak and earlier accessibility for wines. Several Australian winemakers are promoting what they call a “fruit forward” style in 100% neutral oak to have wine that can be consumed very soon after bottling. One example of this is III Associates in McLaren Vale that I visited in January. https://www.mclarenvaleiiiassociates.com.au
Their entry level Descendant of Squid Ink Shiraz (AUD 43) has the below description:
“‘The Descendant of Squid Ink’ is essentially the younger sibling of the ‘Squid Ink’ range. It represents a style that is more about expression of fruit with a minimal influence of oak and is a wine to be enjoyed in a more youthful state. This fruit driven style has becoming more popular in recent years from all growing districts around Australia.”
They then have their Squid Ink Shiraz (AUD 65) that spends 18 months in American oak of which 65% is new American oak.
https://www.mclarenvaleiiiassociates.com.au/our-wines/wine/2019-squid-ink-shiraz-new-release/
I tried both wines at the winery and shipped home a mixed case to Singapore as well. When drinking the latest releases, I’d say that the more affordable Descendant of Squid Ink, the one that spent 9 months in 100% neutral oak, is much more approachable for now. But I think their premium Shiraz will become the better wine with time.
@J. Patrick Lynch, yes - this is a lost-in-translation thing. I’m Swedish and started learning English when I was 10 years old in school. I was searching for a word to replace “shipping” as we are in fact “shipping” our wine in a reefer container and that takes 39 days from the Port of Oakland to Singapore. So I was after a word to substitute for “shipping” and I used “airlift” when I should have written “air freight” instead. You are correct that this is not a military or humanitarian “airlift” operation with Boeing CH-47 twin-engine Chinook helicopters or C-130 Hercules planes. Though I also don’t think this difference is something that it is worth getting annoyed about. It was a term I used without much thinking trying to differentiate from “shipping by boat”. That’s all.
Matthew T is probably getting a special C-130 landing at Miramar for his shipment. GSO (Golden State Overnight) trucks aren’t big enough unless they devote a full day with their entire fleet.
As for me, I ordered a wine fridge from Costco this afternoon
Don’t sweat it. I’m quite certain your English is much better than his Swedish.
IMO there is a correlation between percent new oak used and retail price, certainly. I would say that the correlation with quality is a bit smaller though.
I was googling about oak/barrels a few days ago and we’re talking $1, $2, $3/bottle between the shittiest barrel and the world’s best barrel right? Seems pretty overdone.
Was in Napa this week and heard first hand that many high-end wineries are pulling their harvests this year due to the smoke taint and not making 2020 wine. Implications of course on wine pricing…
Nice review on Pinto Noir 19…First one…Got a case…
Options9/26/2020 - MK_MAXXABLE LIKES THIS WINE: 90 points
Really enjoyed this in fact, prefer it to OG N. 7.
very rich, and fruit filled, dark fruits and a bit of spicy flavors.
I only had 1 bottle of this and sorry that I didn’t’ buy the case.
This one is truly delicious.
Many would argue that it is a humanitarian effort
@MatthewT - I think it makes quite a difference at the wholesale price level of the bulk wines. Imagine a brand new, tight-grained, 225 liter barrel of French oak for USD 1,000. That barrel will hold 300 bottles of wine (0.75 liter for a bottle of wine). And it is only new once. So this cost will be USD 1,000/300 = USD 3.33 per bottle of wine assuming 100% new oak. For 70% new oak, it will be USD 2.50 assuming that the winemaker fully amortizies the barrel during the first-time usage. If you compare that “production cost element” to a wine like OG N.49 (the recent Alexander Valley Cab Sauv) described by Cameron Hughes as having “100% Tight-grained French oak: just a kiss of new wood to preserve the pretty fruit and spice”. For that winemaker, the “cost of oak” will be tiny as it looks like almost only neutral oak. Similar to the Descendant of Squid Ink Shiraz from III Associates in McLaren Vale in South Australia that I wrote about above. A cost of USD 2.00-2.50 per bottle for the oak treatment alone versus near zero will make a difference when you are selling bulk wine to de Négoce for likely single digit or low double digit sums.
I am of course not suggesting that there is a perfect correlation between the percentage new oak and the quality of the wine or the retail price. But I am arguing that it is likely that a wine with a high degree of new oak was intended to be marketed as as a higher quality product at a higher price point. And sometimes, you can just feel the expensive oak treatment like when we blind tasted three Napa Valley wines for lunch on Friday. There was one bottle that my first words for were “we’ve got very expensive oak treatment in this wine” and when it was revealed it was a 2012 Screaming Eagle Second Flight. So some premium wineries make a point out of differentiating by having the oak treatment become a signature feature.