Danny Meyer tip-inclusion confusion

Hard to do if it is not your CC…and if there is not tip line…and if there really is a… Ok, I get it now.

Not sure of the history / back story… but based on Yaacov’s tone and attitude on this thread, i’d be surprised if Victor hasn’t already blocked him… i wonder why the animosity?
What’s the history i’m missing? :slight_smile:

Now $40 per bottle.

I notice the same. It’s a downer to follow.

I believe that Victor has posted misinformation regarding the tipping policy at various USHG restaurants notably Gramercy Tavern ad North End Grill and Yaacov has called him out on it.

Where tipping is included it is made very clear.

New Yorkers are nicer to strangers than to fellow NY’ers

yeah, really. and it’s not really misinformation as much as actually claiming that the restaurant identified him as a sucker to be taken advantage of and allowed him to double tip. and he then doubles-down on the replies without even acknowledging the multiple factual errors in the post that would only serve to confuse anyone reading the original post.

well, i’m truly sorry for the downer.

i find it to be a “downer” when someone posts something about a NYC restaurant group that’s famous for being incredibly hospitable to BYO that is demonstrably false, confusing, and derogatory.

I’ve known Victor for years and anyone that follows his posts knows that he’s been a beneficiary of this amazing hospitality for close to 20 years. So you’d think that he would actually get some of these facts correct before throwing them under the bus in such a ludicrous manner.

I was just making a passing comment.
Post #20 seemed a bit much to me even if he was mistaken.

I like Victor (and appreciate many of your posts as well), but even I realize that his comment about them spotting him as sucker, which seems to bug you, really wouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone so as to hurt their reputation.

As an aside, though a separate topic, I don’t like the elimination of tipping, though that’s less offensive at finer service establishments.

yeah, fair enough. but being drunk would explain it and a fairly likely event given the situation. champagne.gif champagne.gif

spotting him as a sucker wasn’t the bad part. the bad part was the implication that he was taken advantage of, not once, but (at least) twice. and his “proof” for that was, allegedly, a receipt which indicated same.

and the worst part was throwing a group of restaurants that not only cater to him, but all of us, on a very regular basis.

as for tipping, having gone to several hospitality included places recently, i don’t ever want to tip again. it’s an anachronism and has zero effect whatsoever on the service. i’ve never found anything particular that i actually like about tipping, in fact i hate it. who wants to deal with a second installment on every item i order? the analogy i use is it’s the like the first time i took uber - where have you been all my life? this is how it should be. of course, wage laws are another piece, but yeah, separate thread.

It’s cool. I’m not upset at anyone and Victor can stand for himself. Just trying to be West Coast and keep the peace.

Not sure if this is really the best place for the tipping discussion.

My first comment would be to ask how you have concluded that it has “zero effect whatsoever on service” only a study would enable either of us to be sure one way or another but the simple fact that the tip/reinforcement is variable would lead one (if applying typical psychology/behavior principles) to believe that what you assert may well not be true. Especially at establishments below the “fine” level, where the business takes less interest in maintaining and supervising ideal service.

The other thing that doesn’t work for me is the upcharge on wine. I don’t believe existing wine prices should go up much OR that a 20+% charge should be applied to all bottles. Food prices should go up so that alcohol consumers aren’t subsidizing non-consumers. Also, while I know I might get called cheap, I don’t mind tipping 20+% for a nice meal, but question whether service “deserves” a 20+% tip on expensive bottles of wine, say over $200. There I not enough service requirement variability between a $50 bottle and a $200 bottle to justify quadrupling the service charge and I feel the same way about using a standard multiplier for mark-up.

perhaps i painted too broad a brush. it has certainly been my experience, but i mostly eat in NYC at decent places so perhaps a selection bias. now, great service may result in great tips, and certainly the opposite, but since it occurs after the fact, how does a server identify who is going to reward them and therefore focus their efforts in that direction? my point is it was always a broken system that isn’t ideal for the diner (and arguably for the server unless she’s a rock star and always gets great shifts). if the baseline for normal service is to just add some pre-determined amount, then build it in and assume that everyone will get the normal service. if something bad happens, “punishing” the server after the fact seems like a terrible guest experience (you had a bad time, so now you get to deduct some amount from the bonus). no other industry works this way, let alone the great majority of personal services. it’s just that (a) we are used to it, and (b) the wage laws created a strange system where owners were able to outsource the majority of one class of its employees’ pay to their customers.

in my mind, tipping is the outlier and no tipping should have always been the standard. i buy food and wine, someone cooks it, someone manages the room, someone cleans up, someone brings me my food, etc. why is just one of those people being compensated in a way that requires me to do additional and completely arbitrary math after the service is completed?

as for wine, it’s an open issue. from what i can see here in NYC from the small sample set, price increases are variable. same with food.

It’s worked amazingly well in Europe forever. I can’t recall having one bad service experience over there at any level restaurant. I love the no tipping policy.

Still waiting.


Ditto the ditto.

I had dinner at North End Grill last week. Just in the interest of clarification of some of the earlier posts: The tip inclusion kicks in next month and I’m happy to report the corkage was still $25 per bottle and they allowed 2 bottles. Wine service was very good.
I’m a happy repeat customer.

I’ve been a disgruntled repeat customer since they got rid of the latkes appetizer [swearing.gif]

victor might need one of these: http://iwilllookintoit.com/

(insert gratuitous emoji and/or disclaimer to sufficiently convey that i’m not picking on Victor and wish him nothing but happy days in noodle slinging and over tipping).

North End Grill has been added to the fold.