CORTON and C.Charlemagne QUESTION

WINE TALK
1

Question:
WHICH are the best THREE producers (and wines resp.)

  • CORTON (rouge) including all climats
  • CORTON-CHARLEMAGNE (including Charlemagne and Corton blanc)
    in your opinion ?

… BESIDES (new) DRC, Leroy and Coche-Dury. The last 3 are at least in another price-category, if not qualitywise, so I will not count them.

If you make suggestions in the order of 1st, 2nd, 3rd I can do a summary afterwards (3 points, 2 points, 1 point resp.).
Deadline 6 January.

2

Having tasted maybe a dozen red Cortons over the past two decades I can´t say which three are the absolute best, but I´ve a had good wines from:

Faiveley (Clos des Cortons)
Bruno Clavelier (Rognets)
Chandon de Briailles (Bressandes & Clos du Roi)


Corton Charlemagne I have a much bigger frame of reference on, like most tasters I reckon. The caveat is, that I no longer taste Côte de Beaune whites intensively since 2007. However, the best producers for my palate -aside from those you placed “hors categorie”- were:

Bonneau du Martray
Henri Boillot
Again Chandon de Briailles

I reckon the Roumier CC is nice, but I’ve never had the pleasure. The Prieur CC was an oaky mess!

3

with the exception of CdB #2 on my red list I completely agree! [cheers.gif]

4

Scott,

I probably should have typed the words “in no particular order” somewhere…

5

again we agree
(and also with your signature tag [soap.gif] )

6

I like Bourchard’s Le Corton (rouge) and Corton Charlemange (blanc).

Bonneau du Martray’s Red Corton has improved in the last two vintages.

7

White:

  1. Faiveley
  2. Bize
  3. Jadot

Red:

  1. Meo-Camuzet (Clos Rognet)
  2. Senard (Clos du Roi)
  3. Rapet (Pougets)

… also d´Ardhui recently

8

Henri B for Corton Charlie, all day everyday.
I love BDM Corton Charlie as well but the premox issue with them is so strong that it’s scary. But the ones with age that have lived have been SPECTACULAR.

9

Red:

Jadot
Chandon des Briailles
Michael Gaounoux

White:

I don’t drink as much white so let me just say Bouchard

10

I do not drink much red.

But for the white I agree with Howard : Bouchard - specially so if you count the price. [drinkers.gif]

11

Although it´s too early - but the participation is quite disapointing, few Burgheads seem to have an opinion on Corton - I´ll do a short summary as promised (which is not easy due to several unclear ratings):

White:

  1. Faiveley+Bouchard
  2. H.Boilllot
  3. Ch.d.Briailles+Guyon
  4. Martray+Bize+Rapet

Red:

  1. Faiveley+Briailles
  2. Clavelier
  3. Bouchard+Meo-Camuzet+Jadot

(I was never a fan of Martray …)

12

White:

  1. H.Boilllot
  2. Bonneau du Martray
  3. Roumier

1 & 2 way ahead of anything else apart from Coche and Leroy…

Reds;

  1. Faiveley
  2. I like the Prince Florent wines, (which are now obviously DRC).
  3. Maybe Bouchard, or the Dr Peste hospice wines…
13

Gerhard… I would pick Faiveley for his CC too but for some unknoaw reasons, the wine was quite pricey in Quebec, Canada for example approx. 50% more than Bouchard. for the last few vintages Faiveley CC is no longer available in Quebec.

14

Have to agree with Philip- Antonin Guyon’s Corton-Charlemagne is really stellar these days- pure, deep and very racy, wtih great mineral drive and moderate oak influence (about 40-50% new wood I think in most vintages). But it is really hard to pick a favorite Corton Charlie producer these days in the age of premox, as before premox, this was the one village in Burgundy where I felt the white wines needed even more time in the cellar than the reds to truly reach their apogees. To give some example, the best non-Coche Corton-Charlemagne I have tasted in the last couple of years was the 1964 Louis Latour- utterly brilliant and fresh as a daisy. How do you translate this perceptioin that Corton-Charlemagne unequivocally needs long cellaring time to fully blossom to the age of premox? Back in the days before premox, I would have ranked Bonneau du Martray and Coche as the greatest producers (with Louis Latour also at the top of the list if you are willing to go back to the 1990 vintage and further back in time- soemthing happened here with 1992 CC and Latour has never hit the same peaks again from that day forward- maybe they lost some of their good vineyard sources?- but they were brilliant examples in their heyday)- with a very close second to the wines of Louis Jadot, Patrick Bize, Christophe Roumier and Michel Juillot (parcel right alongside that of Coche’s). The Roumier Corton-Charlemagne comes from a very cool side of the hill, over towards the village of Pernand-Vergelesses, so it is not consistently excellent, as some years it just will not ripen. But, when Mother Nature cooperates, Christophe’s version is a beautiful example of the “cool” yellow fruit, white flowers and kaleidoscopic chalky minerality of the Pernand side of the hill of Corton. His 2010 will be dynamite. One should also now mention the Corton-Charlemagne from Joseph Drouhin these days- since 2009 they have begun bottling their own parcel of vines on its own (previiously this was blended in with purchased juice to make a larger, single cuvee of CC) and the leap up in quality is stunning- this is now one of the great sleepers in Corton-Charlemagne in both 2009 and 2010. Before, I would have ranked the Drouhin Corton Charlie in the good, but not great camp, but the '09 and '10 are horses of a different color. Chandon de Briaille has made some beauitful Corton-Charlemagne in the past, but sadly, 2009 was the last vintage for this wine, as the vineyard owner and the domaine have parted company- we’ll have to content ourselves with their superb and often quite exotic Corton Blanc. Have not tasted Bouchard’s or Boillot’s for several vintages and have lost track of how they are doing these days, so that is why they do not appear on my list. I never developed a whole lot of affiinity for the Faiveley or Leroy style of Corton Charlie- just too high strung and grassy for my tastes.

On the red side of the Hill, I like Michel Gaunoux, Chandon de Briailles and Louis Jadot currently as my favorites- though all of them make styles that demand cellaring to really show what they can do (I guess I am in Howard’s camp). The Corton “Bressandes” from Joseph Drouhin also has a stellar track record for aging and I have had some absolutely brilliant old vintages of this wine, but somehow I do not manage to taste it every year in the cellars, so I am not as current on it as I should be. Anotonin Guyon is also making very good Bressandes and Clos du Roi- but I have only had recent vintages and do not have familiarity with how they age. But, the potential for these two bottlings seem excellent- bit different in style from my favorites, as Guyon gives their reds a short “cold soak” a la Henri Jayer prior to fermentation, and so these are not as clearly soil-driven as the Gaunoux, Jadot or Chandon de Briailles versions. I also used to love old Tollot-Beaut Cortons- they aged brilliantly and were great bargains. Have also had great old Clos des Cortons from Faiveley- pre-1980 vintages- but the style swings here in more recent vintages never impressed me as much as the old style wines from the '50s, '60s and '70s. Maybe things are back on track here with Erwan Faiveley in charge, but it is really too soon to say so with any degree of conviction. I have sadly had very little experience with Jean-Nicolas Meo’s Cortons at maturity- but they certainly seem to have great potential out of the blocks each year and would love to confirm by a tasting of older vintages that they belong in the top division alongside my three current favorites. Maybe one of these days… DRC’s decision to blend the first vintage of Clos du Roi, Bressandes and Renardes into a single cuvee does not augur well for the project in my opinion- why not blend the RC, la Tache and Richebourg together as well for simplicity’s sake?

All the Best,

John

15

I’d say that’s so since at least the 2000 vintage - hell, even the 98 was a good wine - but unforunately my 2000-2002s didn’t reward more than 6 years in the cellar - if you know what I mean!
I have some bias for sure, but the 07 Camille-Giroud CC was such a stunner that I bought the remainder of their stock. Lucky for my bank manager that it amounted to only 3 bottles…

Well Aubert presumably told you the same story - there would only have been enough of the individual VV cuvées for 2 barrels of each ‘and DRC are not set up to deal with such small quantities to deliver the quality we demand.’ I personally preferred the Corton to the Echézeaux out of barrel, but let’s see…

16

[/quote]…Well Aubert presumably told you the same story - there would only have been enough of the individual VV cuvées for 2 barrels of each ‘and DRC are not set up to deal with such small quantities to deliver the quality we demand.’ I personally preferred the Corton to the Echézeaux out of barrel, but let’s see…[/quote]

DRC are not set up to deal with such small quantities to deliver the quality we demand.

Thanks for the info - Bill.

It makes sense…here are the details re DRC Corton :
0.57 ha of Clos du Roi, 1.2 ha of Bressandes and o.5 ha of Renardes.

John …thanks for the details info re CC… flirtysmile .

17

Peter, Bill and especially John, thanks for the interesting comprehensive info,
I´m not a real expert on Corton (although tasted quite a lot) - and that´s why I asked the question … I simply tried to get some recs. …

Funny to me: Bonneau du Martray (C.Ch) seems to get a lot of applause, but my experiences are very mixed - if no issues with oxidation the wines still seem to be quite “broad”, quite woody - lacking precision and definition … and therefore CC-typicity (yes, they are intense and “weighty”).

On the other hand each CCh Faiveley was very fine so far … (very hard to find, usually in Beaune or NSG).

18

Gerhard…thanks for starting this thread ( and also the other threads - Declassifcation - re details re Corton Hill with its 3 villages ). I remembered clearly that sometimes in 2008 ( in the other Board ) there was a thread in which I learned at lots from you, and other including WK Choi et autres regarding Corton red and CC.

Guess you know for the last few years, the prices for first tiers G-crus red ( in CdNuits )are too pricey… and also due premoix problem, I do not buy any whites G-crus such as BBM,BM,CM and Montracet.

So what I intend to say is : I need to know and learn more about red Coron and CC.

More than 50% of my whole case of 1997 and 1998 Bonneau du Martray CC were effect by premoxi problem [swearing.gif] . I stopped buying the wine completely after vintage 2000.

19

White:

Rapet
Bonneau du Martray
Bruno Clair

Red:
[some heresy here]
Chandon de Briailles Bressandes
Bonneau du Martray
Louis Latour Corton Grancey

Dan Kravitz

20

I’m with you Gerhard. I never got the BdM thing. Lucky for me I guess.