80-90% of the restaurants. How did I miss them when I was there. Now I guess I know why you live there. Here’s a little crow…unscientific survey…pulled up Brix. I’d say range was 1.5-2, but impressive list with moderate markups. Interesting indeed.
I’ve done corkage there. It is $20-25 on a one btl limit, as I recall. They had Rivers Marie on the list for $10/btl over mailer, I ate there and drank their R-M for weeks until gone.
Chris,
I have laid out my arguments pretty clearly. I don’t see anything wrong with your proposal of having the corkage fee equal the lowest price bottle on the list. I checked 11 EMP’s list yesterday, and sure enough the cheapest bottle on their list is $35 and that is their corkage fee.
The problem I have is that you continue to cling to the idea that your subjective opinion is somehow a universal axiom that will lead to increased sales for a restaurant. Without being a restaurant owner I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion. Therefore, your continued comments are simply baffling, as it is you who has nothing further to offer.
If you and Mike Sai want to only go to restaurants that only offer you favorable corkage terms, that is your prerogative. But why are all the restaurants that won’t do things “your way” somehow intrinsically flawed?
BTW, I am a retailer. So I am also always on the lookout for great restaurants with favorable corkage. And somehow, I have no trouble whatsoever finding them in NYC, Westchester, and NNJ, which makes your whining even more confusing. There are so many databases with lists of places that will work for you. And if you won’t go to 11EMP for dinner because their $35 corkage is too high, trust me pal, it’s your loss.
Kind of funny. The last three States I’ve lived in, none allow byob in restaurants. Maybe several years after I had the ability to byob, I might cry about corkage rates. You guys should be happy that it’s even allowed!
Was in TN a couple of months ago, not allowed there either. The restaurant called the law on some guy (from the NE by his accent) that kept pouring wine from a brown paper bagged bottle into his wine glass. The waiter and then the mgr. told him it was illegal and not allowed. He just ignored them. The cops showed up and escorted him out. The patrons applauded the cops!
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The only one losing is the establishment with a dinosaur of a business plan. What’s more, this will only become more apparent as my generation becomes the majority in the marketplace.
Arturo’s has Paolo Scavino Annunziata too. was so cheap i once poured 40% of a bottle down some babe’s gullet i had met only hours before dinner!
don’t remember berserkerfest dinner there? 14 bottles ended up with only90 dollars corkage :
Yes it is. There are other cities in the world that share some of the cost structure issues of operating a business, but in the US, NYC is unique in many ways. There are pockets and certain areas that mimic some aspects of the NYC structure around the US, but no one is even close. Not LA, not SF, not Chicago… that isn’t to say that you cannot find deals, good values, etc in NYC, you can. Personally, I see no reason to go to a S&W or a Mortons, especially in NYC. Not only have I lived in NYC, I have been traveling there to eat and drink for 20 years…so I have a little bit of experience of my own. With respect to cost structure and demand base, it is unique in the US. It’s closest comps are the cities you mentioned above. Prices will generally be higher in NYC than elsewhere in the US, that is just a unique fact of life that reflect the realities of operating there… not defending the use of wine markets to buttress those costs, but at least it has some basis of comparison when comparing to “similar” meals in other markets…
I think the obvious answer to the corkage question is the owners of restaurants should do whatever they think is the best strategy for their business relative to the their client list and whatever is permissible by law. They want to waive it great, they want to charge $100 great, they want to come up with some formula, that is great too… as long as I know what it is, I can make the appropriate choices for myself… easy peasy…
You still didn’t answer the question.
how else NYC so unique when it comes to restaurants and wine?
You say you have no reason to go to S & W or Morton’s? That is because you are a tourist. Those that live there and eat out all the time as I have for many years WOULD go to S & W or Morton’s, but by no means exclusively to these establishments. I can’t tell you how many business deals I have done at both these places over the years. Sure, there are many other restaurants, some quite better, but if you eat out much of the time in NYC, you inevitably hit a S & W or a Capital Grill, Morton’s, Del Frisco’s , yada yada . They are all somewhat higher end chain steakhouses.
From a WINE perspective…NY is no different than any other place as it relates to corkage. Many times it is not what you know, its who you know…especially in NYC. Sure you might pay a few bucks extra at some restaurants because of its perceived stature or quality, but you can find places like that elsewhere.
I do agree with your statement below
“I think the obvious answer to the corkage question is the owners of restaurants should do whatever they think is the best strategy for their business relative to the their client list and whatever is permissible by law.”
It all comes down to the objectives of the business for the owner… and we can decide whether we wish to go or not. It is that simple.
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Alan,
Can you please explain that to Serge, Mike and Chris?
No I wouldn’t. I live in Chicago… we have all of those places. I never go to them, no reason to. I lived in LA, we had all of those places, I never went to them. I lived in NYC, I never went to those places, no reason to… I’d go to Sparks or Lugers before I’d go to one of those places and I would only go if it were insisted upon by whomever I was eating…
I did answer your question. The question was about costs and mark ups. I said NY is unique because of its cost structure… combination of rents, taxes, comp, etc… which is why you see average higher prices in NYC than elsewhere… I am not sure what you are actually arguing about… but in terms of dollars and cents, NYC is different from other cities in the US… with respect to wine, it is the most important high end market in the US…
I never said you couldn’t find deals in NYC whether it is corkage, wine list, retail shops or otherwise… we were talking about mark ups… which on average, tend to be higher than in other parts of the country… I am not knocking your super insider status, I am just not a fan of Mortons and S&W…glad you enjoy them… I am quite friendly with one of the corporate somms of Mortons, so I am familiar with their program…
i also grew up in/around NYC and dined out frequently as my family was in schmata, both manufacturing & sales. not only did i NEVER see a corkage fee when dining with my uncles i can attest to the fact they never paid wine list retail price either.
got some friends wearing Blue these days and i promise you they live in this century, wine/restaurant wise, just as my family did in the last.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t do what they want. I’m saying they should think less about what they “want” and more about “what makes economic sense.” Look at the rate of restaurant closings and tell me how smart all of the owners are - especially in tough times.
Not that it is in any way related to my contentious other thread right now, but business proprietors who think it is some priviledge for a customer to spend money in their business are living in a fool’s paradise.
The problem for the consumer is the lack of complete and transparent information - the heart of all free markets! There are BYO threads here and there that are only marginally helpful. gobyo.com is a fairly useless site.
But if there was a site that people knew they could go to in order to easily navigate corkage policies, it would improve the quality and completeness of information to consumers. Then corkage would go down. FWIW I’ve just registered winecorkage.com. Who’s in?
Sparks??? …You are definitely a tourist…crap of the crap for NYC steakhouses.
and especially if you live in the city, you are not going to trot out to Brooklyn or Great Neck to Lugers every time you want a steak in NY ? I see markups in many major cities. NYC and SF are probably similar in scope in terms of markup. I don’t see NYC unique in terms of markups either. That Louis Vutton purse my wife loves is the same price in NYC as she would in S.F. or Palm Beach.
Super insider status? LOL I have no status, I typically offer the somm or waiter tastes of my extraordinary wines that I bring and “magically” there is no corkage fee. Try it sometime, I swear it works. I also know some restaurants that I have frequented over the years and they “do me a favor”
Everything you mentioned about NYC is not unique in terms of wine. Sure , NYC has many unique traits. No one is debating that. But you can get a $60 plus corkage fee at a top restaurant in quite a number of major cities. Rent’s are high on Miracle Mile as it is around Union Square as it is on 5th ave. Other than the PITA factor of NYC , I don’t see it being unique.
I guess I will agree to disagree with you.
Dude, you have no idea who you are talking to, I spend a huge amount of my life and resources eating and drinking all over the place… As for sparks, I said I would rather go there than those other places and only if it were insisted upon, I do not go there… I bet it has been 7 years since I went to sparks… the wine list isn’t what it was 10 years ago… I think Luger’s is ok, the last two times I went, I went because I was a guest of food critic who was writing them up, but I would never choose to go there… as for corakge fees, I almost never ever pay them, frankly cannot remember the last one I did, though it might have been at EMP… I am happy to pay them if they want to charge me, it just rarely happens… but thanks for the tips…
Again, you aren’t reading what I wrote…there are absolutely pockets of places who have similar cost structures to NYC, but in absolute terms, rents are substantially higher… there is just greater mass and concentration there… that agglomeration is unique… consumer products like handbags are quite different from wine sold in restaurants. The more commodity the product, the greater convergence there will be in prices in various places. Wine sold in retail establishments has its own influences on price differentials be it local laws, taxes, number of distribution channels, etc… but we are talking about wine in restaurants… there will always be exceptions… shit, I cleared Grammercy Tavern out of their cult cabs years ago, back when I drank those wines… and they sold the wine at a relative bargain price… My premise is that on average mark ups are higher and firmer in NYC than in other places… it is distribution… NYC is a unique animal in the US respect to its price level AND the willingness and ability of people to pay it… it really isn’t controversial…
Oh, now that is really rich… it is amazing what tourists know 
You had to learn that from Manlin?
No offense to Scott, but that should be patently obvious!!! I figured that out myself and have only been drinking a few years (since my daughter was born, actually)
It is so clear that you are a mid-west tourist who knows nothing about food, wine, finance, lousy chain steak places, or New York. Whydontcha go back to eating grouse legs ![[bleh.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/c/cbb27a94fa73081862abf910a8bfa05e2ae2f5c3.gif "[bleh.gif]"){kind=small}
, making pinot, or whatever it is you do with your free time. 
+5, that seems like a no brainer. Todd I know the answer why it’s so obvious to us… people in Socal are just smarter. shrug