Cooked? or do all Leroy wines leak?

WINE TALK
1

Had some Domaine Leroy and d’Auvenay bottles with,

  • Completely soaked cork - Signs of leakage - Shattered wax top -

… What’s Your Experience ?

2

soaked corks are almost always with Leroy. Signs of leakage pretty often too.

3

They always fill the bottles higher than most domains.

4

Leroy soaks the corks & overfills purposely.

5

All of my consumed Leroy’s had soaked corks, a good anti counterfeit strategy to boot.

6

Does anyone know why they do that? Has anyone observed any difference it makes in the actual taste, development or preservation of the wine?

7

So can someone explain why you wouldnt worry about that? If there is a leak, doesnt that mean increased exposure to oxygen? What difference does it make how full the bottle is? Why is a leaker with a fuller bottle less of a leaker? And then there is heat. I understand that it doesnt necessarily mean prolonged exposure to heat but it does mean at least some exposure to heat no? The wine doesnt leak just because of more weight in the bottle…
PS I ask because Ive seen many discussions imply that leakers are “normal” in some Burgundy houses and to a lesser extent in riesling because of overfilling. But why is that not as bad? Especially since Burgs will likely be laid down longer than most other wines…

8

Just because wine gets out doesnt mean air gets in.

9

I think there is an irrational fear with so called ‘leakers’. I have had many older bottles of Bordeaux and Burgundy over the years that have had some degree of leakage and the strike rate of good wines is incredibly high.

A scientist friend of mine has some theory about very low fill bottles hat I cannot explain properly but it relates to there being nitrogen in the head space of the bottle that acts as a barrier to oxygen getting in and that this was his theory why many low fill, old bottles are in good condition.

10

Cracked wax was a standard feature on 1990/1991 Leroys. All the wax capsules cracked during shipment to me on release! It was thick and brittle then. They changed it to a more flexible plastic later on, but I haven’t seen recent releases.

And they did bottle with very high fills. If the bottle temperature went up even 10 degrees for a couple hours it would probably cause leakage because it was the liquid wine that was expanding and that was unstoppable. If there is some headspace, then there is some air in there that will compress as the wine expands, thus preventing too much pressure build-up and consequent leakage. But the leakage, when it occurred, was never a sign that anything would be wrong with the wine! :wink:

With German wines, apparently it is the residual sugar that reduces ths viscosity or something, that makes it easier for the liquid to get past the cork. Or so I read somewhere…

11

This 2001 Domaine d’Auvenay (Lalou Bize-Leroy) Meursault Les Narvaux reduced fill and signs of leakage …
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12

Thanks Paul.
Justin if wine gets out because of expansion due to some amount of heat, air has to get in if the wine contracts as the temperature drops back to bottling temps. Unless a vacuum forms. Im far removed from college physics but that seems logical. Does a vacuum form or does air get in?

13

Plenty of discussion about this in the past.

I’ve had tons of older bottle that look like they have leaked as some point, but it never seems to harm the wine, so it must actually help in forming some kind of closure.

14

Maybe it’s time for a nostalgic “spinning capsules” thread? [snort.gif]

15

Humberto,
I’m not coming at this from a scientific perspective, but if a producer doesn’t fill high, there’s some oxygen in the bottle. If Leroy overfills, there’s no oxygen in the bottle. But then even a very slight heat change can cause a pressure change that will cause some seepage and get a normal amount of oxygen in the bottle, like the normal producer. It’s not like the Leroy keeps leaking or was necessarily exposed to heat. It might just be at a normal level due to a slight pressure change.

I’m not a Leroy fan (although I adore d’Auvenay). But they do notoriously overfill, this causes some leakers even in non-heat damaged bottles. Not sure why they do it, but it does happen without heat damage, and the introduction of minimal oxygen, i.e., that you’d find in a normal bottle, doesn’t seem to produce higher rates of oxygenation.

Cheers,
-Robert

16

I dont drink much Burgundy. Im just curious :slight_smile:

17

I do a decent amount of Leroy business and saturated corks along with some leakers are the norm with perfect provenance. This is a snippet from Martine’s Wines regarding this year’s allocation - please note that Martine’s is impeccable with storage and transportation from start to finish and I still have some bottles arrive with signs of seepage, etc and have never been concerned:

“Leroy has kept the traditional Burgundian methods for bottling wines. The traditional method is to fill each bottle the maximum allowed and leave no space between the wine and the cork for air. This helps the wine age through time and prevents evaporation also known as the “Angel’s Share.” As Leroy’s wines are made for long ageing, this method, along with the best corks available, is the best way to accompany the aging process. This method occasionally produces some small leakage on the outside of the bottle. It should not affect the quality of the wine under proper cellar conditions. Sometimes the visible end of the cork is dark with mold that developed under the capsule, which should not be a cause for concern. It’s the opposite – it means that the wine was stored correctly in humid conditions.
“This wine was bottled in the traditional manner. It may contain a noble and natural sediment at one point in its evolution. This is a sign that the wine is alive. Preventing the formation of sediment by filtration or any other means is to take away its life and character. This bottle should be stored at a temperature between 53F and 60F and at a relative humidity of 80 to 85% . Only when these two conditions are met can the wine reach its full potential.” – Lalou Bize-Leroy”

18

If the bottle is that full when they put the cork in, the leak may be occurring during cork insertion. Like some Germans. Doesn’t have to imply later leakage or heat exposure, but it would make it difficult to distinguish between that and leakage from cork insertion during bottling.

19

Thanks all for the feedback! [cheers.gif]

20

Does any one know of any other producers that have similar “strategies” regarding corks? I have heard Truchot wines are filled quite high and sometimes show seepage with no damage to the wine. Fourrier as well?