Was reading the most recent release from Clos Solene (Paso Robles), and they mentioned they had started ‘aging’ in glass (they call the vessels ‘wine globes’).
Has anyone heard of this? I know of concrete (and to a lesser extent sandstone) but had never heard of glass.
You’ll probably get more replies in Wine Talk than the Asylum. Aging in glass demijohns used to be very common in Barolo. I think this was particularly true when many producers did not sell through each vintage. Once the wine finished its time in wood it was transferred to glass. I’m not sure the advantages or disadvantages to this method vs. bottling; perhaps slower aging with a larger vessel. I also recently listened to an IDTT where he mentioned Barolo producers storing wine in 2L bottles with screwcaps.
Wow, wrong forum, my bad- thanks, moved!
There is a very long history of ageing wines, particularly dessert wines, in large round glass jugs referred to as ‘bonbons’. Mas Amiel in Maury will leave the wines outside for a year in these, temps ranging from ~20 - 100°F.
Dan Kravitz
But it’s not really aging then right? It’s just inert
Does wine age in bottle? Pretty sure it’s still aging. More slowly, but still aging. I assume, however, that slowing the aging is a desirable effect at that point.
Sure- but, as we know mags (and larger sizes) age even slower, and a 100-200L glass aged for a few months (or even a few years) seems like it wouldn’t do anything.
It’s doing something, but doing less. There are probably a lot of reasons to do it. With regard to slowed aging, it might keep the wine fresher if you are trying to sell it a couple of years down the line. Given traditional Barolo’s propensity to shut down hard this could make a big difference in how the wine shows a few years after vintage. Mostly though, I assume they needed to free up the botti for subsequent vintages. Why they chose this over bottling into standard bottles at that time, I don’t know. It wouldn’t be surprising if convenience and cost were as prominent considerations as aging curve.
They were developed by Michael Paetzold and even have their own instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/wine.globe/
Some producers such as Arnaud Ente are using them 100%.
For red wine, based on what I have heard from producers using them, they require very complete settling before filling to avoid reduction.
They are very expensive and quite easy to break.
I know that the intrepid @RandallG has done a lot of thinking and work in this area. Maybe he could chime in.
He definitely made some of his Le Cigare Volant in this manner, even using magnets to stir the lees.
Freezing to heat damage?!? Doesn’t sound good to me. Is this really the desired result?
Are they using it for ‘aging’? What’s the goal - you don’t get the roundness/additional flavor from oak, the oxygenational/neutrality like concrete/sandstone, etc
In the past US, Madeira was often aged in demijohn. It has a different effect. It is slowed but the wine becomes less fruity and more ethreeal and lacy.
Interesting - is this due to the potential for lees to impart these qualities? One might think that since lees are a good ‘sink’ for SO2 and therefore not as much is needed, this would not be the case? Curious to the thought process here.
And any reason WHY Arnaud uses them vs storage in other containers? Or for how long? And what types of ‘bungs’ or closures go into the top? I would think that glass is pretty impermeable - similar to stainless?
Cheers
He poured a Rose once that he had used this method with - one of the most ‘singular’ roses I’ve ever had - smelled like day old curry . . .
Cheers
I think the website says they use teflon for top/closure
This is for fortified dessert wines. The term is ‘rancio’, which translates as ‘rancid’, although without that exact meaning in the context.
Dan Kravitz
Been there, Doon that! For quite a number of years (7-8?) we aged a portion of Le Cigare Volant and Le Cigare Blanc in 5 gallon glass demijohns (carboys/bonbonnes) sur lie, (sometimes with an extra added infusion of lees!) typically 2 or more years of additional ageing. I also tried variants of this technique with pink wine (outstanding) as well for one vintage of pink as a more oxidative, rancio style, which we calledl Vin Gris Tuilé. I remain very impressed with the technique; it is potentially a very powerful tool and if done properly (and the stars line up) it can even be worth the enormous, ridiculous effort to make/age wine in such a fashion. Some of the things I imagined would happen in this sort of élevage just didn’t happen. In fact, we never observed the appearance of reductive species in the wine aged in bonbonne. While we made an effort to make the transfer of wine into the 5 gallon bottles as anaerobic as possible, we might well have taken more extreme measures to exclude oxygen in that process. What I did observe most notably in these wines was a very different texture - much creamier with greater length. There was also a strong umami component - if discreet, it was quite attractive the way that truffles can be. In some cases, we allowed perhaps too much lees extraction and the wine might have something bordering a bit on the soy sauce element. But if I had the resources (I still have the demijohns) and the space I’d happily take up the practice again. A Grenache based or Pinot based wine would be a great candidate for the technique.
Randall,
Looking forward to hopefully seeing at the Rhone Rangers event this Sunday? And where are you making your wines these days? I heard a rumor that Language of Yes was taking over the Edna Valley tasting room?
Cheers
Alas, did not get a full-fledged invite to participate at the event so I’m taking a pass this year. Rumors are true; LOY has presently commandeered the EVV TR. LOY wines are currently being produced at Talbott Winery; the Popelouchum wines at Chualar Canyon Winery in Salinas.