Good idea. It’ll have to wait until Monday when I can dump it back into excel.
Chris, you owe it to the (traditional Bordeaux) wine community to forgo sleep and update the list ASAP 
Arvo, Seriously, there’s more constant than Sociando? Say it’s not true! I’ve just remortgaged to invest in SM. Nnnoooo!!!
Isn’t Trotanoy considered traditional?
A cut below those already listed, but solidly traditional.
Chateau Greysac - Medoc
Chateau La Cardonne - Medoc
Chateau d’Arvigny - Haut Medoc
Chateau Lescalle - Bordeaux Superieur
Chateau Meyre - Haut Medoc
Chateau Les Vieilles Pierres - Lussac St Emilion
Great post. Adding a list of traditional wines in this category is esp. helpful as I don’t follow changes at these types of estates nearly enough.
I was kidding of course, but hey, more power to ya!! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I forgot about Chateau Olivier, speaking of Graves. I’ve always enjoyed this wine, both the red and whites, but have not had more recent vintages. The 89 and 90 were major purchases of mine, solid values. Had an '89 about a year or so ago along side a '90 La Louviere. Both solid. Leve’s site does not suggest that any modern consultants have been brought in, but the son took over in 2012 and the merlot content has increased.
A couple more Margaux:
Chateau Ferriere - 3rd Growth
Tends to be a more elegant Bordeaux, but in my experience does not perform at all at anything above 5th Growth level. I have only bought Ferriere in what are considered outstanding years.
Durfort Vivens - 2nd Growth
I tried this wine last year, for the first time.
Aren’t you worried that the son might have been secretly sired by Michel Rolland? Best not to take too many chances.
I fear the Bogeyman, he lurks around every rock and trestle.
I haven’t had recent vintages, but I’m surprised that Cos d’Estournel, La Mission Haut Brion, and Leoville las Cases aren’t up there. I recently had '01 Cos and '01 LMHB side by side, and both were classic.
IMHO, Cos d’Estournel is the archetype of modernized Chateaux. Not quite so flagrant in years like 2002, and perhaps 2001, but from 2005 forward, boom, full-on modern.
I have to admit that I enjoyed a 2003 recently at a big steak house chain with over-seasoned meats and some other Cali Cabs, and in that context, it worked. But, it was international in style.
La Mish should definitely be on the list. I mentioned it above, but didn’t put it in my personal list since it’s out of my price range at this point. That should not have been the factor for this thread, in restrospect.
Re Cos - that is very, very sad to hear.
What about LLC? I was under the impression that it remains true to its long record of tannic, concentrated, but fairly traditional wines.
Ditto and +10 on value (if you wait)
What is the significance, if any, that the longest list is of Paulliacs?
My own personal view is that Pauilliac is textbook Bordeaux. When I think of classic Bordeaux, I think of Pauilliac. Higher percentage of Cab, power of the fruit seems to handle new oak best, complex aromas from dark cassis, rich earth to pencil and cigar box. Historically, these are also some of the longest lasting Bordeaux made. It’s no coincidence that 3 of the 5 First Growths are from Pauilliac.
Simply stated, why mess with success? The Chateau owners would be fools to mess with a formula that has worked for so many hundreds of years, captivating the minds and souls of some many historical people, such as Thomas Jefferson.
I would put some St. Estephe wines up there, too, Like Montrose and Cos. The question is, why did Cos go to the dark when Montrose did not? I just don’t get it, Cos had no need to change.
It’s truly a bummer to keep hearing about Cos…I have some bottles of the 2005, now I’m scared about whether or not I’ll like them. Loved the 2001 Cos, such a fantastic wine.
Speaking of Bordeaux, I’m sipping on a glass of 2012 Moulin d’Issan…wow, what a killer QPR. While I guess it kind of straddles the traditional/modern line it really speaks of Bordeaux and way over-delivers.
It’s farther for Rolland to drive.
I’ve drank 16 different vintages through the 2000, and I detected a riper, more voluptuous style staring with the '99…still great juice though. Hopefully the haven’t continued to push the ripeness.
Agreed. Shame about Cos… I really like the St. Julian’s too, but Paulliac was my first love. Still have a bottle of the first wine I bought for “my cellar”, 1982 Lynch Bages.
I see that the Moulin d’Issan comes from a separate vineyard than the Margaux classified wines, which make me think there’s more QPR potential here. How does it typically perform in other vintages? 14s are readily available for 15 bucks, might be worth a gander…
Though I’ve not tried any vintage younger than '01, I’d include Haut-Bailly.