Chave Hermitage and brett - opinions?

Last week I attended a NZ Syrah vs Chave Hermitage tasting. The (serious) audience consisted of wine writers, winery owners, wine judges, wine makers and a couple of civilians (that would include me).

The wines are served blind in pairs that were the same vintage or close in vintage. The wines were scored using NZ show system judging system (out of 20 points). After everyone had tasted and scored the wines, the pairs of wines were then discussed and revealed. Generally the tasters had no trouble identifying the Chave in each pair. I think I did the worst only correctly identifying 4 out 6 Chaves.

The 2005, 2009 and 2010 Chaves came out on top and were very rated highly by all. The NZ Syrahs were very good to excellent (Silver to Gold medals in the scoring). Mostly they were very clean and pure, with a lot of florals and pepper character. A couple of them would have been better with less oak.

The Chave wines were mostly chosen as the tasters top wine or second wine. They all had power, structure, depth and complexity.

What was most interesting to me was the discussion (led by the wine makers) around the Chave wines all being Brett affected mostly only to a slight degree but not to a level to be distracting or unpleasant.

The Chaves all showed to varying degrees, savoury meaty notes including bacon, blood sausage, etc etc.

The NZ winemakers are certain that these meat related taste and flavour elements were entirely due to Brett. None of the bottles got worse nor did they show more Brett related characteristics over time and with temp increase.

It struck me that if this true; then the Chave family appears to have the ability to ensure in every single vintage that the wines contain the “correct” amount of Brett to add complexity but not detract from the overall wine.

I have never found the Chave Hermitage to be a “bretty” wine and I had always thought that the savoury meaty nuances to probably terroir related features.

My question to the board is: What do others think about Chave Hermitage and Brett?

Thanks

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I’ve drunk my fair share of Chave Hermitage - okay, perhaps more than my fair share - and brett has never been a problem. Last week I had a bottle of the 1999 and nary a trace.

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I tend to think new world winemakers find Brett in stainless steel Riesling ;). Over the last 10 years, I’ve become much more sensitive to Brett than in my youth. I’m still loving Chave. I don’t think it’s Brett.

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Older Chave has, for me, a distinct truffle note that I find unique to Chave. I’ve assumed this is something, perhaps a form of brett, found in their old cellar. I have also postulated that the meaty/bacon/smoky notes found in Syrah, particularly Rhone Syrah, has its foundation in brett.

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Recent vintages of Chave have quite a bit of brett. Someone in Burgundy was just complaining to me about it over lunch last month. With whole cluster vinification and rising temperatures we may see more of this phenomenon from producers who didn’t have problems with it previously - I don’t find old Chave bretty.

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To help calibrate, how far back are we going when you mention recent vintages? Last 10 years or more?

thnx

Yes! Interesting to hear. The youngest I recall having in the last couple of years are 05 and 01. Clean as

It’s grape/clone and terroir chacter, not brett 

I say this after 25+ vintages

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FWIW, more or less all the Chave wines I’ve tasted have been bretty, but the Hermitage probably the least so.

Then again, I have had only a few Chave Hermitages. Maybe some vintages are more bretty. But Chave wines definitely have some brett. I don’t know what stuff you’re having if you are saying otherwise.

Last 10 years. That said, I don’t drink a lot of the wines made by Jean-Louis. I find a big stylistic break after 98, and the wines made afterwards are not my preferred type of northern Rhîne.

Which years have you had that were bretty? Just curious.

I’ve had 11, 12 and 14 recently, and they were all super clean.

What’s your definition of “super clean”?

Not a single hint of Brett at all.

And I can’t stand Brett.

You probably need to allow for different physiology, too – some people seem to be able to pick up brett at very low levels while others (like me) are fairly insensitive. This is separate from whether one is repelled by it or finds a certain amount to add complexity.

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This Australian Wine Research Institute web page has lots of interesting information about threshold levels and how those vary with the grape and winemaking.

What does ‘Brett’ smell like?

4-EP, or ‘Band-Aid’ aroma, is the main contributor to ‘Brett’ character and is considered the general marker for Brettanomyces. Wine with ‘Brett’ presents with more than just a Band-Aid aroma, however, with 4-EG adding ‘smoky’ and ‘spicy’ notes, and 4-EC adding ‘savoury’, ‘sweaty/cheesy’ and ‘barnyard/animal’ nuances. The palate can also be affected; with diminished fruit flavour intensity and a drying/metallic aftertaste.

Why does ‘Brett’ smell different in different wines?

‘Brett’ compounds are usually always present together, albeit in different ratios. These ratios have been shown to be related to the different levels of their precursors naturally present in different grape varieties. Some typical ratios in varieties, and likely sensory effects compared to 4-EP alone, are shown below.

Variety 4-EP:4-EG ratio Likely sensory effect
Pinot Noir 3:1 More leather and barnyard, spicy
Cabernet Sauvignon, Nebbiolo 9:1 Similar to 4-EP alone, but with a pungent spice
Shiraz 23:1 Similar to 4-EP alone, pure Band-Aid

Thus while a ‘Brett’-affected Shiraz might smell like pure Band-Aid, a ‘Brett’-affected Pinot Noir will possibly smell more ‘animal’, ‘barnyard’ and ‘spicy’, perhaps akin to and often confused with savoury characters of Pinot Noir wines and heavily toasted or spicy oak flavours.

What are the sensory thresholds for ‘Brett’?

In a French Cabernet, Chatonnet and colleagues (1992) reported that the sensory perception threshold for 4-EP was 605 ”g/L. Studies at the AWRI found a lower threshold of 368 ”g/L for Australian Cabernet Sauvignon wines.

Further work at the AWRI has shown that the threshold of 4-EP depends very much on the style and structure of the wine, with the intensity of other wine components able to mask ‘Brett’ character. For example, the 4-EP threshold in a ‘green’ Cabernet Sauvignon wine, and in a heavily oaked Cabernet Sauvignon wine, increased to 425 and 569 ”g/L respectively. As a wine ages, primary fruit flavours generally reduce and this can also sometimes reveal ‘Brett’ characters that have earlier been masked by fruit characters.

Aroma threshold (”g/L)1
[The table formatting was lost here in the cutting and pasting.- John]
4-EP 4-EG 4-EC
French Bordeaux Cabernet Sauvignon2 605 110 –
Australian Cabernet Sauvignon3 368 158 774
Australian ‘green’ Cabernet Sauvignon 425 209 1131
Australian ‘oaky’ Cabernet Sauvignon 569 373 1528

  1. ASTM three-alternative forced choice method, ascending concentration series
  2. Chatonnet et al. 1992
  3. Bramley et al 2007

More information about sensory thresholds can be found here

Are we becoming better at detecting ‘Brett’ or am I just super-sensitive?

Wines affected by ‘Brett’ usually contain both 4-EP and 4-EG. When present together there is an enhanced effect, and a lowering of the threshold. This was reported by Chatonnet and colleagues in 1992. Originally reporting the 4-EP threshold alone as 605 ”g/L, this reduced to 369 ”g/L when present with 37 ”g/L of 4-EG (9:1 ratio). AWRI studies have shown the 4-EP threshold alone as 368 ”g/L. but when combined with 4-EG the threshold is much lower than this. So if you are smelling ‘Brett’ in wines and having them analysed at levels below 200 ”g/L then you might not be super-sensitive, it might be just the real threshold for the combined Brett compounds in that wine style. In addition, as with many aroma compounds, there is a learning effect and with repeated exposure to the aroma of ‘Brett’, it will be detected more easily.

In consumer testing, levels of 4-EP of 600 ”g/L with 4-EG of 200 ”g/L were sufficient to strongly reduce consumer preference, even though consumers would most likely not have been able to describe the flavour and in fact only 4% of consumers had heard of ‘Brett’.

Misdiagnoses of ‘Brett’

The AWRI helpdesk quite often receives wine samples suspected of being affected by Brett, yet a quick smell, and analysis if needed, reveals the wine to be ‘Brett’-free. It seems that ‘Brett’ is sometimes being blamed for other wine faults – including sulfidic characters (‘sewerage’, ‘sweaty’, ‘rotting onions’), low levels of oxidation that reduce fruit intensity and add a ‘savoury’ note and smoke taint. It is important to know what 4-EP and 4-EG smell like for your own sensory memory bank and to be able to identify Brett problems in the winery. Wine aroma kits are available for purchase, or you could attend one of the AWRI’s tastings.

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I mean, the recent stuff definitely has brett. I got poured the St. Joseph blind (which I didn’t like) and spent some time trying to figure out which Bordeaux producer has brett issues.

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Such an interesting discussion - and one that spotlights the challenge of ‘defining’ characteristics among tasters, even knowledgable ones.

The post John made from the AWRI is pretty comprehensive in terms of different chemical markers for brett and what aromatic qualities they may lead to. Based on the OP, I would not say bacon feat or meaty would necessarily mean brett, at least not to me, especially with syrah.

Of course, the wines could be sent off for analysis and we would see if the chemical markers were present and at what levels.

The last paragraph in that post also addresses the misdiagnosis of brett, something I think happens quite often. Reminds me of the ‘misdiagnose of TCA’ because a wine shows ‘differently’ than expected but does not have the usual clear signs of the mold.

Cheers

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Do you recall what vintage?

The comment above about warmer vintages would certainly lend itself to more Brett. It does make sense, I just haven’t had those warmer years yet. (I did have a bottle of 2016 on release and it was glorious, but super young and not bretty)

We need someone on the board with a deep cellar and access to a wine lab, and a spirit of generosity, to test out the analyses based on perceptions.

This was either 2012 or 2014, so it wasn’t an especially ripe vintage.

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