Chateauneuf du Pape

WINE TALK
1

An appellation with which I have very limited experience is Chateauneuf du Pape. Which wines do you consider interesting with an elegant, traditional style?

2

Domaine Charvin - very elegant, no use of oak, benchmark CdP
Chateau Rayas - amazing wines, but expensive now. Pignan equally good. Also, try Chateau des Tours - same owner, same style.
Domaine Pierre Andre - traditional outlook, difficult to find in the US
Clos des Brusquieres - very traditional in style, under the radar
Domaine Marcoux - can hit the mark in terms of elegance but alcohol sometimes shows through
Domaine Vieux Telegraphe - old style Chateauneuf, needs 10 years+ to come around

Clos des Papes and Beaucastel from the early 90s are also good examples of elegant, traditional Chateauneuf. Today they are bigger, more hands-on made wines.

3

I’ll be interested in seeing the responses. I don’t think CdP has ever been the region to look to for elegant wines, and the distressing trend over the last decade or two has been toward more concentration, weight and alcohol. The more traditional wines tend to be more rustic than elegant.

4

A recent 89 Beuacastel was amazingly very simualar to a Burg from Chambolle Musigny. Burgundy is a favorite region by mile but I’ve have a soft spot for CDP and own about 80 btls. I really like Beaucastel and Vieux telegraphe a ton. I plan to buy more Beucastel after the 89 I tasted a few weeks back. The 00 Beuacastel is a lovely btl for early drinking. also, I’d avoid the amped heavily oaked luxury cuvees and stick with the cheaper basic cuvees from producers like; Bosquets Des Papes and Bois de Boursan.

5

Elegant is not a descriptor usually associated with Chateauneuf du Pape, whether old-school or modern.

That said, I agree with Peter about Charvin and Rayas being elegant.

To that very short list I would add:

  • Clos du Mont Olivet (regular bottling, not Cuvée Papet)
  • Domaine la Millière
  • Domaine la Consonnière (nearly 100% Grenache with a smidgen of Clairette, from 100+ year old vines on sandy soil; only two vintages released, 2009 and 2010, both of which are about as elegant as Chateauneuf gets)
6

I’ll second the consensus that traditional CdP tends more toward the rustic than the elegant. Charvin, Rayas, Marcoux, perhaps some others from like northern vineyards of which I’m unaware are the best candidates and I doubt say Burgundy lovers would use that term even for them.

But to the traditionalist list I’d add Mourre du Tendre, Eddie Feraud and of course Pegau.

7

A bit early to declare a consensus, wouldn’t you say?

8

Although I’m unfamiliar with La Consonnière, I agree with all the above (especially Charvin and Château Rayas) and would include the traditional Le Vieux Donjon, as well, particularly in a vintage like 1994, as well as riper years, such as 1995 or 1998. Lucien Barrot tends to be more robust. Their 1994, however, had an old-school elegance. What about Clos des Papes? I’ve had fine wines from the Avrils over the years. In the past, the regular Les Cailloux was somewhat modern, but stylish. Mont-Redon has its critics. Nonetheless, the wines are more refined than most. Yet I haven’t been following Châteauneuf for several years now. After the more lean 1999 vintage, the wines are often exceeding 14.5 percent alcohol.

9

There isn’t a minimum number for a consensus. It signals general agreement among the available opinions. So far, the consensus is therefore as stated.

10

No mention of Pegau? Interesting. I like them. Had a 94 the other day that was just great.

George

11

George, I’ve had great Pégau, such as Cuvée Réservée and Laurence from 1994 and 1995.

12

I would do a little research and go after the wines that are dominated by Grenache - they tend to be easier to drink at a younger age and show a brightness of fruit that the behemoths won’t for a while - La Vieux Donjon is a classic rendition - and predominately Grenache -

13

First, welcome to the board, Charis. Hope you have fun here.

I come at this as an avowed grenache-o-phobe. Having said that, I had the chance to try my first Rayas recently (2001) and will concede that it is much lighter, lifted and elegant than the rest of the pack. I tend to like older Beaucastel, but that’s because of all the mourvedre in that wine. Otherwise, the only CdPs that I have remotely enjoyed are those with at least 20 years of age on them, when some of the garrigue characteristics begin to take better hold (I quite remember a 1985 Pegau that I enjoyed a good deal). Don’t let me dissuade you from trying some, though! :slight_smile:

14

Before yours, only in post #6.

But of the many things I might say about Pegau - most positive, some not - elegant is not one of them.

BTW, I love the 1994 Pegau - a generous, soulful, immensely satisfying wine. But elegant? Not by any definition in my dictionary.

15

This was my initial reaction, too. And there’s lots of CdP that I love.

16

Anything Parker dislikes. [stirthepothal.gif] [snort.gif] [berserker.gif]

17

There ARE quite a lot CdPs that can be called “elegant” - but the key is: when they are REALLY MATURE !

Ok, Rayas (incl. Pignan) is a textbook “elegant, fine and complex” example, but also Pegau (take 1981, 1985, 1992 for instance) and
Bonneau (definitely not rustic or blockbuster-like … e.g. 1992, 1997 Marie Beurrier) deliver very fine elegance - which has been prooved in my vertical Pegau-Bonneau tasting last December …
Also mature Clos des Papes, Les Cailloux, Marcoux, Charvin, Chapoutier Barbe Rac, Mont Olivet, really old Vieux Telegraph (1971 !), Bois de Boursan Felix (1999!), Charbonniere, Fortia (1970!) and many others.

If you drink your CdP with age 3, 5, 8 years you rarely will experience really elegance, but more upfront mouthfilling fruit and power …

18

There are some great picks above here.
Let me add the new Peter Weygandt wines: St Theodoric.
100% unoaked Grenache off 3 different, all sand, single vineyards.
They’re pretty special wines.

19

I beg to differ. I named five producers - Rayas, Charvin, Mont Olivet, Millière, and Consonnière - whose wines are made in an elegant style. Peter T. named a sixth - St. Theodoric. With those producers, you don’t have to wait years and years to sense the elegance.

20

This is a good list. I would add Vieux Donjon prior to Cambie consulting. Monpertuis’ Tradition is another I like but '01 was the last vintage I bought so I don’t know if the style has changed.