Champagnes for cellaring - how would you build a collection?

WINE TALK
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If you had to start over from scratch today, and you wanted champagne to be a significant part of your cellar, what would your approach look like?

I’m particularly interested how people would approach this if:

  1. Money IS an object
  2. You’re looking to build a collection that you can start enjoying in the short term, but will have the potential to last into the long term

I think it’s easy to say buy the ultra expensive or rare bottles like Selosse, Ulysse, Bouchard, etc, but what if you’re approaching this with a moderate budget (relative to vintage champagne prices)? I think it’s also and easy, but unpalatable answer to suggest bottles that need to be laid down for a decade or more. Not everyone has that kind of time, and, even if they do, they don’t want to wait a decade to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I’m not necessarily interested in specific producer or bottle recommendations (though they certainly are welcome), but more the strategy aspect of it. Things like:

  • How do you budget both in total and $/bottle?
  • How do you balance short-term enjoyment and long term potential?
  • What is your retail vs. auction mix strategy?
  • How do you approach vintage allocation? (i.e., mixing vintages for earlier / later drinking and optionality)
  • What other factors would you consider?

Looking forward to discussing!

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You can try to find the next hot producer; stuff like la rogerie, bougy, prelat might be still decent.

Personally the majority of my champagne is grand marques, as they can be good now but also age well, with some growers like Bouchard, la rogerie, and some others. I happened into a lot of buying opportunities over the years, and when you find them you have to strike when the iron is hot.

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So you’d say you’ve taken a more opportunistic approach? Sign up for distribution lists and strike when pricing is great?

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If you don’t want to do this I am not sure what the purpose of cellaring is.

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Does it have to be all buy at release and cellar for a decade or more? Are there bottles that will be good in 3-4 years? Can you fill out your collection at auction with past releases that will be good in the next couple of years? Stock some NV champagne for the next couple while building a vintage collection for the future?

Some people might want to drink champagne sometime before 2035

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I think there is a ton that can be consumed pretty much upon release and they’re great. I don’t think there is much transformation that occurs in any <10 years. Maybe some, but not much and not enough to make it worth while. Reasonable minds could differ. Some don’t really care for what happens after say 25-30 years and will appreciate the softening of acid and bubbles that comes after maybe 7-8 years. Also, some will just prefer all of them very fresh. Generalizing here but I think the French generally prefer them fresh.

edit to answer auction question: I’ve sold but never bought Champagne at auction. That said, I would be more concerned about buying Champagne at auction than still because I think Champagne is more sensitive to proper cellaring conditions. Wouldn’t hurt to try a couple older bottles from auction to see if that’s even what you desire.

Even though I love bubbles at any stage, the best for me have been from the big houses and beyond 30 years from vintage. Those are pretty much the only ones that I really age. They don’t come inexpensive but have the track record that sort of justifies the cost.

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How old do you like champagne? Personally, I find I prefer Champagne on the younger side vs. the older side- more vibrant, bubbly, and youthful than some others might like it- so a very different strategy than with most reds I buy.

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I think I understand what you’re asking and I am largely living with the type of cellar you’re describing.

  1. Buy current-release NV bottles for near-term (immediate - 5 years) in the $45-60 range that align with your palate. No NV Champagne is going to die in the 1-3 year term and in the 5-year range, some will surprise you. Cheap enough to eat some losers.
  2. Buy current release, non-marquee vintage bottles, like Roederer, Vilmart, Pierre Peters, Laherte Freres, name your style preference for mid-term drinking (5-10 years) in the $75-$150 range. Focus on strong vintages, ignore bad ones.
  3. Buy great (or meaningful) vintage marquee bottles for special occasions, kids’ birthyears, etc. I have Dom P, Krug, Cristal, and some mags for my kids. These are in the $175+ range and I drink them accordingly.
  4. Buy mags when you can find them =/< 2x 750ml bottles. They taste better, age better, and they fun better. :berserker:
  5. Purchase at auction, with caution and prepare for disappointment, older Champagne to make sure it’s something you want to pursue. Alternatively, find a generous group to sample.

Budget comes down to drinking practices. If you drink a lot, focus on 1. If you drink infrequently and want more oomph when you do, focus on 2. If you very rarely drink, then might as well ball hard with 3.

:cheers:

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I’m with you on this as is @Sarah_Kirschbaum. Where I quibble is that 1, there isn’t much transformation, maybe just what I call a softening and 2, like Sarah, I think there are many NVs that can run a good 10 years or more without degradation, but again, I also don’t see many ever really getting into positive and significant transformation.

Hard to argue from a purely qualitative standpoint and I do get it if you’re working with limited funds, cellar space, and how much you’re going to drink. As someone from a farming family and a former importer, it drives me nuts how “bad” vintages are dismissed. Not cool to leave the farmer holding the bag that nature dealt. Take a look at all the no, no, and no when it comes to 2011 yet my NV Guiborat (for disclosure, it is something I imported) is still drinking just fine and it is primarily 2011. I wouldn’t say it has evolved for the better but it’s still holding fine and drinking very nicely.

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Yes and just try to find deals. I was able to buy lots of 08 Dom <100 and 08 Cristal <150 at the right times.

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First, why cellar? Why not just buy and drink? If your hold time for most bottles is, save a handful, 12-18m then it seems like you are just managing purchasing convenience to align with consumption. If, instead, you want to build up a cellar for a purpose (you like your champagne bottle aged and you want to make sure the provenance is perfect or you buy to sell or you buy to bequeath or you buy because you just like to collect and that’s fun! Etc) then your approach to cellaring should align with that goal.

For me, the budget really matters as well as the rate of consumption. For example, if you said the budget is $10k start with $5k annual and the rate of consumption is 24 bottles a year I would do different things than if the budget was 10x and different things if the consumption rate were 3x.

In general, I don’t think people should plan to cellar unless they have a good reason and most people starting out don’t know what they will want to do until they are in it. Instead, I think more people should “paper cellar” (like paper trade) - write down what they would want to buy over the year and then see how much they deviate from it. Do that retro a few years and you will better understand why you are buying, why you buy what you buy, and why you consume what you consume. With this reflection, I believe you can better plan your budget and your buying, including whether cellaring is actually a good idea or not. [this is probably my biggest piece of advice]

Depends on how you plan to consume. I like older champagne and I value provenance. I buy older champagne from brokers / auction to scratch the itch now and buy new release to be able to consume in the future. It also matters where you are in your personal explore/exploit arc - I have a good sense of my preferences, so I tend to optimize for what I like.

Depends on preferences. For me, the early years are critical to start to get a handle on your preferences. To do that you need to sample a bunch of stuff. Auction is a great place to get older champagne (though, usually, only marquee champagne). If you want to cellar to drink older champagne, then retail is what lets you drink what you buy at auction today in 20 years.

Depends on your view on blends vs vintage champagne and how you consume. I would suggest a new person to champagne to buy and try the benchmark vintages over the last 30 years to get a sense of age and preferences. From there, buy what you like.

For all I said, I don’t recommend over thinking what is ultimately a very experiential process. It’s more about avoiding big mistakes vs doing something right. The big mistakes are probably over buying stuff you end up disliking and not experiencing a wide enough aperture of wines early on.

And, if you don’t read anything I wrote: buy mags.

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Interesting point on the transformation. I generally prefer to give some of my better NV champagne a couple of years in bottle and feel they benefit from it, but maybe it’s different with the tete de cuvees.

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I love this strategy. I guess it’s sort of what I already do, but without step two. Maybe my real issue is a collection with a “missing middle”

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I concur, and disagree heartily with @TGibson. Most well made NVs improve and develop significantly over 5 years or so. With some like Lilbert Perle, they only become interesting and exciting wirh time.

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I can’t speak to Lilbert only having maybe two or three bottles, all consumed within days of purchase.
Generally speaking, even if there’s some development in NVs, I haven’t found them really change into what I think of as aged Champagne, just the same way that some Langhe Nebs will round out after a few years but never resemble a 50-year-old Barolo. It could be argued a few years makes them better to one’s preference but it’s a pretty subtle change. The main thing I think is often wrongly posited about NVs is that the fresher they are, the better they are.
If money, space, and time are of big concern, probably best to find a house that suits your style to be consumed without dealing with cellaring.

I like @MChang buying philosophy. Be patient, understand pricing and swoop when you see something you know you like that is favorably priced.

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If you are going to cellar, and you have space (at home or off site), don’t forget to go with magnums for aging champagne.

I’m newer to storing champagne and selectively growing what I lay down, but even N/V I have often had better drinking from magnum than 750.

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Good points across the board by Alex but I think this is my favorite. Take your time understanding what you like before stressing too much about building a collection. If you’re into it, I think the collection ultimately builds itself, with some guidance, of course, over the years. Then one day you very well may be looking at that pile of boxes and wondering how and why it got so big :open_mouth:

I usually save my Buffett and Munger quotes for the investment thread but pretty apropos here:
“It is remarkable how much long-term advantage [we] have gotten by trying to be consistently not stupid, instead of trying to be very intelligent.” Munger

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We are going to have to agree to disagree on that. Over dozens of producers and hundress if bottles, i think the development is significant, so much so that we never open anything within 1 - 2 years of disgorgement anymore, exxept for a datapoint here and there.

That said, with certain notable exceptions, like Roderer NV from the 50s, I am not aging these like I would Cristal or Dom or Clos des Goisses.

I do agree on most langhe nebbiolo, though.

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I’m in the opportunistic camp. Buy the grand marques from great years on deals. Good early, better with age.

Since I don’t drink a lot, I have focussed mostly on vintage champagne, and only from top vintages. Exeptions being for special cuvees(Laurent Perrier Grand Siecle) and Krug MV of course.

While you are waiting, buy some grower stuff for drinking earlier and finding out what you like. And then buy some for aging. I’ve been opening my 02 Saves, 04 Vilamart to spectacular results.

02 Delamotte (not a grower) also fabulous.

Don’t forget 375s. I have gone through cases of Krug MV in 375, Louis Roeder Rose 08 and 12. It’s great to pop one when you don’t want a whole bottle (maybe because it’s midweek, maybe another bottle is also on deck).

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Taste deeply and pay attention to styles. Don’t just buy champagne, figure out if you like BdN, BdB, more classic blends. Do you like reductive or oxidative producers? Do you like long lees aging? What dosage is your “sweet” spot (lol, noice)? Do you prefer Rose?

I think you need to know that. Champagne is like any wine, except more complicated and with more variables. So understanding what wines you really enjoy is important.

For me, I would go buy like 4 mixed cases of NV wines and then drink them to figure out what styles I preferred. Then I would buy a mixed case of vintage hitters, a mixture of styles and producers, and see if that preference remained consistent. Along the way I would spend about 3 days reading through the Champagne thread on this forum.

Then, once I felt solid in my likes, I would begin buying NV to V on a scale of about 3 to 1 so that, over time, I could scale my cellar with vintage wines while more commonly drinking NV champagnes. Whether you should prioritize magnum purchases depends on your frequency of consumption with others present, and your determination to age significant bottles.

Good luck. The champagne community on this forum is wonderful, with a lot of engagement, a lot of civility, and a lot of notes. And one of these days we’re going to get together for a bash!

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