Champagne Houses where 2nd Best is Close to the Top - or not! And Why?

I think this is a really interesting topic and have enjoyed the discussion about various producers. A few observations. There are many producers with excellent quality up and down their line, but often make really different wines at each price point. Billecart Salmon, for instance, makes a Clos St. Hilaire that is excellent, but it is a single vineyard 100% pinot noir. For 1/3 the price you can snag a Cuvee Nicolas Francois or Elisabeth Salmon, chard/pinot blends and the latter a rose. They are not close to apples to apples. Even so, the Named Cuvees are often, in my opinion, as good or better than the considerably more expensive but far rarer single vineyard Clos St. Hilaire. On the subject of BS…the champagnes…BS has invested money and effort in bumping the quality of their line, and their EB vintage is a lovely wine worth trying. While their lower levels may be a but lush and soft, their vintage wines are very good.

Veuve comes to mind as a good topic piece. Grande Dame, Extra Brut Extra Old, and Vintage all have much in common, though dosage and blend may wiggle a bit. I think the best buy is typically the EBEO, with its lower dosage and more time on lees. I think the vintage wines, including or maybe especially the 2008, often under-deliver.

Roederer is, to me, the stallion of this discussion, providing a vast line of wines at what I consider excellent QPR. Cristal Rose, Cristal are both exceptional. Vintage Roederer may be among the best QPR champagnes out there that aren’t trendy. It gets very quiet love, but consistently delivers. I know we all eschew ratings and all that jazz, but the last bunch of vintages got 94, 93, 94, 95, 95 from Reinhardt and Kelley. Then there is their BdB, which is also an unsung hero and is routinely excellent (and has received a bump in quality). Then there is the “Collection” wine, which is excellent. It may not be special like Cristal, but certainly as good or better than Bereche Brut Reserve, and that’s a big compliment at the price point. Then there is premiere, a good champagne. What a lineup. It’s really a set of astoundingly high quality wines at very good price points. I would note that the Anderson Valley is not akin to good champagne. In its absolute best vintages, it might sniff Brut Premiere. L’Ermitage might compare to Collection 242 in good vintages, though made in a very rich and yeasty style. That’s no insult, but you’re getting what you pay for with Roederer Estate, and that’s what I appreciate about Roederer.

Philipponnat is also excellent up and down the line. Royale Reserve wines are good, not great, but good. Vintage wines, especially the 1522s are great, and Clos de Goisses can be a home run.

Taittinger is getting slapped around a bit here because most folks see two wines from Taittinger: Comtes and Brut NV. I can buy a case of Brut NV at under $35 per, but Comtes is closing in on $200 a pop. Obviously there is a massive gap there and one should not expect any kind of reasonable comparison between the two. But Taittinger Prelude, a blend of 50-50 chard and pinot from grand cru vineyards, is a really nice champagne at a reasonable price point. Tatty Vintage is also good, though not great, and does not compete in quality with Comtes. While harder to find, I think Blake Brown would vouch that Taittinger’s NV Folies de la Marquetterie is an exceptional champagne, blended 55-45 pinot and chard. You just don’t see Prelude and Folies very often. If you do, I implore you to snag one and give it a shot. Might change your mind a little bit about the Taittinger lineup.

Laherte is there too, but the lineup is such an apples to oranges comparison that it doesn’t fit all that well in this discussion.

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Killer post, John. Super-informative.

I’d love to give my opinion, but admittedly it’s not worth much. We open a lot of champagne, but I’ve never once sat down and opened a tête de cuvée and a “lesser” bottling from the same producer to compare. While I’m a champagne enthusiast, I’m no scholar. I don’t do enough blind tastings either. Without the benefit of blind and “horizontal” tastings, I’ll consider myself a member of the elite amateur league.

Cheers,
Warren

P.S. For what it’s worth (nothing), IMO, I would put Roederer and Vilmart in the category of producers with very high quality 2nd wines somewhat approaching the top wines, with Philipponnat, Heidsieck and Pierre Peters as other contenders. The reserves in the Heidseick NV make that a stunner for the price.

I haven’t tried Heidsieck in ages. What’s worth trying?

Re Roederer - your thoughts on the vintage rose?

Not John, but the 2013 Roederer rosé I had last year was one of the best rosé Champagnes I can remember. Deep, refreshing, and generally brilliant.

I will readily admit that I haven’t had one in a few years so really can’t comment. I’ll defer to others. I’ll look to snag one next time I see one out of curiosity now.

Warren is a champagne stud. Ignore his humility and pay attention when he starts speaking bubbly!

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Start with the NV and see if you like the style. It’s reasonably affordable, but does not present that super bright citrus driven profile like many new release NVs. Heidsieck has a serious reserve wine program, though less so now than in the past, and so most of the NVs have a good percentage of older reserve wines. The result is an NV with a slightly more mature flavor profile with a leesier and slightly less citric delivery. If you like it, try the BdB and if you like that, shoot for the Blanc de Millenaires.

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I picked up a '14 the other day that I plan on tasting tonight and I have some '15 coming in this week. I had the '12 a year ago and thought it was pretty good. Not Cristal rose, but a fraction of the price and drinks better than most others at that price.

I have not had a chance to try the '13 rosé yet but the '08 and '12 are brilliant. I can’t think of another rosé I would rather drink. There are better values (Bollinger Rose, Elisabeth Salmon), but nothing else reaches the highs of Cristal.

Sorry, I meant the '13 vintage rosé, not Cristal - the latter is a bit out of my league!

Roederer delivers the goods at all levels.

John,

The reserve wine program hasn’t changed much. The big change over the last couple years has been that the aging on the lees has gone back to normal (3-4 years) rather than the extended (6-8 years) time it saw for much of the last decade. The other difference now is the addition of some oak aged wines that does bring some roundness and creaminess to the wine now that it sees less time on the lees.

Changing gears - Overall, I think the two best $40-$60 US larger producer NVs currently on the market are the Charles Heidsieck Brut Reserve and Louis Roerder Collection. When I want a solid bottle that is easy to find at a fair price point, I reach for these two first. Both are rounder, creamier, and more relaxed in style which I find drinks well upon purchase and goes well with food. If you are into crisp, tart, acidic, floral, mineral profiles or are a BdB fan, these may not align with what you are looking for.

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Brad,

The considerably shorter time on lees is what I was referring to. Re Roederer Collection and Heidsieck NV being your go tos for easy to find at the price point, I have to say that makes me feel pretty damn good about my choices! I go through more of those two wines than just about anything else.

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Love all the information everyone is providing!

Chartogne Tallet is a house where the entry level wine Cuvee St Anne is superb. I’m not really sure they have a traditional tete de cuvée, though, more single vineyard or monovarietal bottlings.

RL Legras entry level BDB is superb, and the Saint Vincent and presidence are also very good.

Finally, Diebolt-Vallois BDB and prestige are amazing wines, whereas Fleur de Passion is great but needs a lot of time.

As I posted elsewhere, a recent 2008 Vilmart Grand Cellier d’Or drinks like a tête de cuvée. The Coeur de Cuvée, which I haven’t had in a while, probably needs more time.

Cheers,
Warren
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I had the '14 the other night and it was good. Some red berry and sweet tart acidity. The finish had a touch of mandarin orange which worked well with the wild flounder it was paired with. I recall liking the '12 more and hopefully the '15 shows up this week so I can try that while the '14 is still fresh in my memory.