First off, I realize this does not make sense. Which is why I am posting to see if anyone can help me point to the problem so that I can fix it. I have an underground cellar along with several traditional wine fridges. All are set at 55F/12.5C and 80% humidity. There is also a backup generator and temperature alarm monitor. The temperature has been constant during the time period at question. Curiously, almost every bottle of champagne I store seems to be off. This does not happen with traditional still wine in my cellar, only sparkling. In the last 18 months, I have pulled corks on ~30-40 bottles of champagne. All but one or two of them were off. The experience tends to be a bitterness on texture and sourness on flavor that is not enjoyable. The condition of the bottles and corks always seem perfect (including pressure under cork). Color is typically perfect. Bubbles however are often (but not always) lower than I would anticipate. The constant is sour/bitter. This experience is consistent between low/zero dosage producers and traditional houses (Ulysse Collin, Sellose, C. Bouchard, Agrapart, Bereche, D. Perignon, Krug, Cristal etc).
Sourcing and shipping do not seem to be the issue either as there is so much variety and an eye towards shipping care. Some are purchased directly in Reims, some in Beaune, and others in various retailers in NY and CA (some direct from distributors). Shipping is always done via temperature controlled methods overseas delivered directly to me in a cold storage truck or overnight express for domestic when the weather is cool.
For a period I felt that maybe the bottles I was opening in my cellar were young and needed time on cork to settle. Last night I had a bottle at a restaurant that was fantastic. It made me so happy to finally get a representative example. I have the same bottle in my cellar so I came right home while the experience was fresh on my mind. I was so disappointed to get that same sour/bitter experience I have been getting with most every bottle of champagne in my cellar. I opened 2 other bottles after that last night from various producers (and distribution origin) and had the exact same experience. My hit rate on champagne in my cellar is ~98% failure. In restaurants or in France it is almost the inverse ratio.
I can not imagine what is causing this problem but as you can imagine its devastating. The variability of source, shipping and producer suggests to me it HAS to be the storage. That is the only constant. But It does not make sense to me how a 55F / 12.5C degree underground cellar with 80% humidity (and a soft light that comes on only when I am in the room) can possibly cause an issue like this. And I do not have a noticeable issue with the vast majority of my traditional still wines.
This seems so odd to me but is maddening. I welcome any ideas or advice this community may have (I have to find a solution) and appreciate the thoughts. Thank you!!!
Will be interested in the responses. As you suggest, it sounds odd, but there will an an explanation.
Other variables, that might not be the cause, but I’ll raise anyway, are temperature / glasses. Those may/will vary between the locations.
Thus a further experiment, may be to take a bottle from your cellar to a friend’s house, or a friendly restaurant, and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks Ian. And to your points. I store it at 55f / 12.5c and typically open the bottles to try them out of the cellar and then put in a colder refrigerator (38f / 3c) for 1 hour or so and then rest in an ice bucket while consuming. Often times offering them a day or so (overnight re corked in a 38f / 3c refrigerator) afterwards without any improvement over 1-2 days. And for stemware I typically use zalto universal or zaldo white wine glasses.
Wondering if my cooling process is part of the culprit though I rarely have a good experience fresh out of the cellar (pre cooling below 55 / 12.5).
Appreciate the communities thoughts. It is driving me bonkers!!!
Agree with the question about glasses or washing method/detergent for glasses.
I’m not sure where you live and whether this is possible, but I’d be interested in isolating your “location” as the potential cause.
I’d purchase 5 orders of varied champ, 2-4 bottles each. Split each shipment in half before it enters your house. Find an off-site storage (or friend’s cellar) for one half & put the other half in your cellar.
Sample after the requisite cellar time.
One more with the same question. If you use the dishwasher, there is often a thin film of detergent residue that will significantly affect the flavor of wine, which is why I always hand wash my everyday glasses and pre-rinse dishwasher-washed glasses thoroughly with wine before using.
But if the problem is his glassware, why would it only affect champagne? Unless he has special glasses for champagne that are treated/stored differently from his other glasses.
Dare I say… palate shift or something physiological?
That wouldn’t explain why he liked the bottle in a restaurant but not at home.
TLDR? (That part)
Do you do the refrigerator method for other wines too? Is the wine bitter and sour from the time you open it in the cellar? How about taking them out to rest on ice bucket first before opening? I often found fresh bottles out of the freezer(when I don’t have enough time to chill them w/bucket) very muted. Not sure how an hour in a 3c fridge would ruin the wine but such cooling method could possibly have an impact. Now I almost always rest my champagne in the fridge for at least a day before opening it or chill them in the ice bucket for a good hour.
Missed the point on his still wines. Yes, if the same glasses are used, it won’t be the glasses. In which case maybe it’s something with service temp or else it’s psychological because of environment.
Hard to explain the bitter/sour note, I don’t know have any theories other than the stemware issue others already noted, but a few thoughts on the lower bubbles you reported.
Two questions. One is where you’re located and whether elevation may at all be a factor. Higher elevation is going to cause the bubbles to dissipate at a faster rate. The other is how your opening the wines. I did a few trials blind and did find a difference in bubbles when opening champagne softly vs. a more aggressive pulling of the cork.
While I don’t understand it either Champagne is very sensible to Neon light … I had 2 or 3 off bottles that were stored under Neon light on a shelf all day long … they tasted kind of muted and bitter …
???
Thank you all for the thoughtful responses this far. To address some of the questions. I wash the glasses by hand and well and will even wash them out with a splash of the champagne first- so don’t think it could be that.
Light - my cellar is dark and only has a small soft light that comes on when I am in there.
Location and altitude: I am in Florida but on high ground and have an underground cellar.
Opening style: I try to open the cork very gently. Have not found that (the accidental aggressive pop) to be correlated to this negative experience.
Appreciate all the support and thoughts. Is maddening to have this volume of delicately sourced bottles and cellar infrastructure and be having so many negative experiences.
The restaurant bottle last night was so enjoyable. Would love to be able to have that experience in my home someday! Thank you all!!!
The other potential issue is any heat damage in transport given you’re in Florida, but I’m not sure how likely that it. From your comments it sounds like you’re quite careful with your wines.
Puzzling for sure. Hopefully the collective wisdom of Berserkers helps solve this puzzle and hopefully the underlying issue.
While I’m sure they’ll see this thread. Paging @William_Kelley and @Brad_Baker who can hopefully add some further insight into the issue
And one additional experience I just remembered that adds to the complexity (or enhances the curiosity that it’s my cellar). Several months ago I brought a bottle of 2008 cristal to a byob dinner at a restaurant . I had purchased it from a reputable local retailer that stored them in a wine fridge. I kept it in my cellar for 3 months and then put it in my refrigerator the morning before bringing it to the restaurant. My friend only drank two sips saying it was astringent and bitter. He was right. I keep hoping more air would resolve it but to no avail. So frustrating. Thank you for all the help and ideas!!!
12.5 C looks a good temperature to serve Champagne… why put it in the fridge and then in ice? Not that I believe it is the cause…
The only things that make wine go bad over time are
- it was bad wine
- bad storage
- oxygen ingress
You’ve ruled out 1) and 2) while making observations (low bubbles) consistent with 3). I also don’t know how long you’ve been storing these, but I do think cellaring champagne like ageable still wine is a riskier proposition than is generally admitted now that champagne is so trendy. There’s a reason the champagne houses put out late disgorgements for the benefit of people who want aged champagne.
As Ralphie said, “It was soap……….poisoning.”
Try extra hot water rinse, lose the soap, and see what happens.
Are you sure you like Champagne? :newhere: