I know that there is a lot of gray area with this subject, but I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions:
Assume two wine cellars with identical, acceptable levels of humidity.
Cellar A is actively cooled and kept at a constant 58F.
Cellar B is passively cooled and has a slow seasonal temperature swing, reaching a peak of 68F in the summer and a low of 62F in the winter. (I chose these numbers to represent what I think to be the upper end of what is acceptable for mid-term cellaring of wine.)
What will the effect be on a wine that is cellared for 10-15years in each of the two cellars?
I understand that a wine stored in the cooler cellar will take longer to reach its plateau of maturity… does this make the wine significantly “better” when it gets there?
Does the varietal make a difference (ie red Burgundy vs. Bordeaux)?
I dont think anyone knows with 100% accuracy. I would suggest that at the 10-15 year mark the passive cellar will be a bit ahead in terms of maturation. Obviously, the type of wine matters. At 10-15 years, some wines are past prime and others just getting there. The best Bordeaux or Burgs from 2005 for example may not be there yet. The question of whether the longer ageing curve will make a better wine in the long run is interesting. I would not think so, but no one knows for sure. I think it is more of a timing question at that point as to when you want to drink the wines. The colder the cellar, the more this difference. There are other factors at play as well. How is the cork seal on each bottle. I think this is a huge culprit in bottle variation. Possibly also humidity and vibration in the cellar and maybe even light.
Empirically, I have had awesome bottles of wine aged twenty years in a passive cellar as you describe. Some 82 First growths that at 30 years are not at full maturity IMO. How much longer do you want to wait for your wines. Now, if you were buying wines like that, it might change your point of view.
I cannot give you comparative answers, but I recently unearthed some Bordeaux from the 60s that was in a passive cellar OWC. Temps were as you suggest, maybe even slightly more extreme. The wine never moved since release. Many were exceptional in fill, color and drinking quality. Again, I cannot suggest how they may have aged vis a vis an actively cooled cellar, but I can attest to their quality.
My guess is that the difference in maturity and quality would be very little or nothing, unless you go out to much longer time periods than that. I think one of the things that makes us wine geeks is that we grossly overestimate the need for / value of ultra-optimal storage.
Sure, storing the wine on the Crate & Barrel rack next to your kitchen window for 8 years is going to matter, but I would guess a 1995 Bordeaux that stayed in a Eurocave from the date of purchase to today is probably the same as, or at least not substantially better than, one stored on its side in a shipper box in the downstairs hallway closet for that same time period.
I feel the same way but 10 time over on the issue of humidity. Unless the wine is in some exceptionally arid location, I doubt the humidity matters at all, other than at high humidity some of your labels will get wrinkled and moldy. A wine bottle on its side keeps the cork moist and it doesn’t matter if the humidity is 30% or 70%.
Having said all of that, I have spent a ton of money on beautiful temperature controlled storage cabinets out of fear that I could be wrong, so who am I to say?
I’ve lately been trending towards the ‘don’t worry so much’ approach, being content to accept the conditions of my passive cellar in a NE US basement, but it’s hard when one considers the value of the wine in a decent sized cellar and the dissapointment that would ensue down the line if bottles turn out to be dull…
The microwave won’t hurt the wine in the slightest though I’d start at 10 seconds. I’d not do this with old or delicate wine, but for a current release wine? I in fact HAVE done it and the wine doesn’t change from wine that comes to temp naturally.
Chris N… I’d not have a passive cellar in a place that never drops below 62. My house (or rather the room that holds the wine) drops to 50 in the winter. I actively cool the room to the mid-60s in the summer. Your question is unanswerable in many ways since how the temp varies and how long it stays around 68 will matter as well how long a wine stays at 50F where it matures VERY slowly.
In most cases, the consistent lower temp is insurance. You know it won’t cook at that temp. You also have a much lower chance of brett blooming, etc.
Agree with Chris. I think that storage conditions are just one more step in a wine’s development. I have a passive cellar.
My self-conceit is that my local storage conditions imbue the wines I have with some local character
There were a number of threads on ebob in the past on this. Though there are many doubters, as a Ph.D. chemist I am quite confident there is nothing at all wrong with using the microwave to warm up wine a bit faster. I have done it, and wouldn’t hesitate to do it with something of high value.
As for the original question, the wines at 62-68 will most definitely have progressed farther than those kept at constant 58. That’s just simple chemical reaction kinetics. A nice article is here http://www.wineperspective.com/STORAGE%20TEMPERATURE%20&%20AGING.htm
Oops, that’s the same article I had it saved from several years ago.
I tested it with water tonight. 10s raises a 1/3 full burgundy glass from 50F to 55F. 20s raises it from 50F to 62F, water with some left over dregs of 2004 Alter Ego de Palmer goes up to 63F with 15s.
I was skeptical because the whole article emphasizes how important it is to keep wines stored at a lower temp to decrease unfavorable reactions and then all of the sudden says it’s okay to use microwaves to excite particles in wine to rapidly raise the temperature…theoretically raising the chances of unfavorable reactions.
Sorry to re-hash whatever was discussed on e-bob but I think I’ll just let mine raise to ambient temp over the hours of drinking. I’m not a PhD chemist but I do have a biophysics degree so I know enough to know science is just going to be used to support pre-existing notions in this argument since no one really knows how this all affects how a wine tastes after all the calculations have been made.
A somewhat related question to ponder: for those with “constant” temperature cellars (actively cooled, etc.), do you ever think about temperature gradients within the cellar? One could probably reasonably assume that there’s likely to be a 3-5 degree temperature difference floor to ceiling, or along a wall depending on insulation, etc. For wines that are laid down and never move for 15, 20, 25 years, would this mean that maturity is a function of position within the cellar? Has this been used intentionally to produce a “spectrum” of wines of varying levels of maturity at a discrete point in the future?
Fred, that’s not an unreasonable question. There are two answers: First, you’re not elevating the temperature enough, for long enough, to promote any significant impact from chemical reactions. The effects of elevated cellar temperature are long term, not overnight, and certainly not in a few seconds. Second, microwave energy doesn’t couple directly into any reaction mechanisms, all it does is generate heat through dielectric heating - not any kind of resonance with molecular motions or bond energies. And contrary to popular belief, microwaves heat from the outside in, not inside out. So you have a small amount of energy being deposited to a large pool of liquid, a big buffer against any kind of localized heating.
If you ever leave a bottle of wine in a hot car to the point where it heats significantly, let it cool down and try it soon after. You’ll likely find that the wine is just fine right then. It’s not until later that it might start to show signs of damage (why I’m not sure, I postulate that the short term heating does increase some precursors to ultimately negative reactions that will occur over time).
Anyway, it seems you demonstrated that a little microwave heating doesn’t hurt the wine at all, and is a quick way to warm up a glass from refrigerator temps.
Cheers,
Alan
I’ve never considered it. A 5 degree difference might do something over 20+years, but things aren’t that static in my cellar (I put things in, take them out). If you want to eliminate this, use a small fan.
15-20s sounded a bit long to me which is why I tried that mini-experiment. I think Rick’s suggestion of 10s would work better if I were to go that route.
Also, the article makes 3 BIG assumptions: 1) there are “favorable” reactions 2) there are “unfavorable” reactions and 3) the threshholds for those reactions to occur. You can’t use chemical kinetics to explain aging of wine and how it tastes because there are too many unknown variables. Just like calculating the time it takes for a bottle of wine to become saturated with oxygen or running analysis on bottles of CDP doesn’t explain how a wine tastes. It’s all very interesting but we don’t know what reactions or ratios or compounds or by products affect/contribute to the final product and taste.
I think the Ch. Margaux article is the most telling. Good enough for Ch. Margaux to store wines for 150+ years, good enough for me!
Why microwave a wine when you can pour it, swirl it, and take your time as it reaches room temperature? If I need a drink that bad, I’ll grab a beer. I’m not saying microwaving a wine would have negative effects on the wine, it just seems silly. Plus, I don’t want my wine smelling like yesterday’s hot pockets.
Fred - I don’t think the article is trying to explain how wine ages, but why temperature is an important variable. It contends that some eactions which produce things we don’t like take place significantly faster above certain temps. That is, the argument is that we don’t want those things to happen, they happen above a threshold temp, so keep the temp under that and you’re fine in regards to that reaction.
As for
I think I’ll just let mine raise to ambient temp over the hours of drinking.
I don’t disagree, but sometimes you run into a situation where that’s impractical. For example, I’ll sometimes store a half bottle in the fridge to keep it and forget to take it out until I start to cook dinner… ooops. It’s fairly rare, but it can happen.
Isaac - see above. it’s not something I do to move a wine from cellar temp to drinking temp - that would be silly since for me the two are only about 10 degrees different. But a 375 that’s at 38F and that I want with dinner? Yes, I’ll 'wave it to get it to cellar temp, then let it open from there.
Just my double EE esoteric mind at work here but Microwaves work because of resonance causing molecular motions and resultant heat. The resonant frequency of water is around 2.5 GHz, which by no accident is the frequency of a microwave oven. I’m just saying…
I had it saved from several years ago.![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}