@Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r and @ky1em1ttskus when I was building case 2 in WineBid I didn’t see many older Kabinett Riesling or champagnes from these threads available. Do you know of good retailers to source aged, relatively reasonably priced Kabinett Riesling and champagne or do I just need to be more patient with WineBid?
A small but passionate following is all that is needed
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I can tell you that it’s very hard to find kabinett with age on WineBid, because everyone loves them and most people drink them young. Unless it’s a REALLY old bottle (talking 15-20+ years) it’s not worth the buyer’s premium given how affordable kabinett is.
If you want me to put together a 6-pack sampler for you I can see what I have extras of in my collection, DM if interested.
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I have bought from Brian before. I recommend taking him up on his offer.
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20 months ago the 05 Lafarge was tight as all get out seemed like it needed another 10 years minimum.
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What @Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r said is largely true for Champagne, as well. You can certainly find big house Champagnes with some nice age on them, but they’ll be in the $200+ range.
Occasionally, Envoyer Fine Wines will offer some bottles with age for fun prices, but it’s pretty rare.
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Okay, that’s unfortunate, but thanks for the information. Is there a vintage you would recommend that demonstrates the benefits of age but is not so old that the prices get astronomical?
Thanks, I’ll keep an eye on Envoyer.
I’ve found that even a few years of age, and even 1-2 from release, can do a lot to evolve most MV Champagne, so its not like you need to find bottles with massive age on them.
This also gets at the idea of determining how aged you enjoy your wines. I apologize if I missed it somewhere in the thread, but to me that is a big factor. I see that your original post noted starting a cellar with “the benefits of aging,” but that an mean a lot of different things. It is also something that takes a lot of time to figure out, in part because tastes change and evolve and in part because buying older wine at auction carries risks that the wines were not stored ideally and may not be representative. I guess my point is just, be careful with aging as well. I’ve definitely had wines surprise me with how well they age, but I’ve also kept wines too long that didn’t warrant that length of storage and end up over the hill. It’s likely inevitable, but something of which to be aware.
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Hmm, seems like I’m doing a bit of stocking up to get ahead of the tariff hammer (or at least that’s my excuse).
Case 3
Focus: Cellar (Champagne)
Retailer: Saratoga Wine Exchange
- Marc Hebrart Champagne Brut Rose Premier Cru NV
- Henri Billiot Champagne Brut Reserve NV
- Charles Heidsieck Champagne Brut Reserve NV
- Domaine Huet Vouvray Le Mont Sec 2023
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This is part of what I’m trying to get a better handle on with this baseline cellar. To better understand how different regions/styles of age-able, old-world inspired wines change over time and how that aligns with my preferences. From @Robert.A.Jr 's comments, it seems like (please correct me if I misunderstand), with three bottles of a given Bordeaux, I might be able to get a better sense for that by opening at 10 years, 15 years, and 20 years. @Michae1_P0wers what do you feel like is a good three time points for NV Champagne? Perhaps something like, 0 years, 2 years, 4 years?
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I would think that is sound logic for the Champagne. Many can last longer, but that’s a decent starting point and will give you an idea of how they progress.
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Case 4
Focus: Cellar
Retailer: Hi-Time Wine Cellars
- Domaine Charvin 2019 Chateauneuf-du-Pape
- Joh. Jos. Prum 2021 Riesling Kabinett Wehlener Sonnenuhr
- Domaine Laroche 2022 Chablis Montee De Tonnerre 1er Cru
- Produttori Del Barbaresco 2019 Barbaresco
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Case 5
Focus: Cellar / Bordeaux (Left Bank) Orientation
Retailer: WineBid
- 2017 B. Levet Côte-Rôtie Améthyste
- 1982 Château Branaire-Ducru
- 1989 Château Cantemerle
- 1990 Château d’Armailhac
- 2016 Domaine Arlaud Morey-Saint-Denis Les Blanchards
- 2005 Domaine du Pegau Chateauneuf-du-Pape Cuvee Reservee
- 2016 Domaine Tempier Bandol Rosé
- 2015 Gabin et Felix Richoux Irancy
- 2007 H. Donnhoff Kreuznacher Krotenpfuhl Riesling Spatlese #6
- 2018 Lionel Faury Saint-Joseph Vieilles Vignes
- 2017 Radio-Coteau Vineyards Savoy Chardonnay
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That 1990 d’Armailhac brings back great memories but been a very long time since I had one. Looking forward to your note.
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Case 6
Focus: Bordeaux (Left Bank) Orientation / Bordeaux (Right Bank) Orientation / Bordeaux Blanc Orientation
Retailer: Saratoga Wine Exchange
- 2014 Chateau Branaire Ducru Saint Julien
- 2020 Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan Rouge
- 2016 Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan Rouge
- 2020 Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot Saint Emilion Grand Cru
- 2016 Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot Saint Emilion Grand Cru
- 2005 Chateau Beau-Sejour Becot Saint Emilion Grand Cru
- 2021 Chateau Carbonnieux Pessac Leognan Blanc
- 2021 Chateau De Fieuzal Pessac Leognan Blanc
- 2021 Domaine De Chevalier Pessac Leognan Blanc
- 2000 Chateau Branaire Ducru Saint Julien
- 2018 William Fevre Chablis 1er Cru Montee De Tonnerre
- 2020 Felsina Chianti Classico Rancia Riserva
I thought the 95 d’Armailhac was a bit past its prime so I’m not super optimistic about the 1990. On the bright side I managed to find a 96 Branaire Ducru to replace it in my left bank orientation. At this point, I can have a mini Branaire Ducru vertical: 16, 14, 05, 00, 96, 82. Should be fun!
Case 7
And I was completely wrong. The 1990 was still fresh and delightful.
- 1990 Château d'Armailhac - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac (5/1/2025)
Cork was fully soaked through. Dark ruby with bricking at the edges. Still fresh, red currant, plum, tobacco, cedar, spice. Medium body, medium acid, fully integrated tannin. (90 points)
Posted from CellarTracker
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Case 8
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