Can women be wine-drinkers?

WINE TALK
1

First post, but long time lurker, so please be gentle…

The long Gary thread full of his rationalizations of, and subterfuges about, his drinking habits, got me thinking more about my own drinking. I drink two 5oz glasses of 12% abv wine per day (I have a sharpie mark on my glass to indicate 5oz). Now I find that, according to the UK guidelines, I shouldn’t be drinking more than two 4oz glasses of wine per day, and that I should also skip a couple days per week. I use the UK guidelines b/c they’re usually more generous than US guidelines…(yes, I indulge in my own subterfuges!)

So now I’ve dropped down to two 4oz measures (unless I’m drinking a low abv riesling or something) but this is still banging up against the upper limit for recommended for women. I haven’t yet started to skip a couple days a week entirely.

Now we have just started getting into wine and have a boatload of things still to try, with new grapes and regions to explore and some really great discoveries already. But it looks already like 8oz per day is too much. Indeed the latest studies (for what they are worth) indicate that ANY alcohol consumption at all increases women’s risk for breast cancer.

Which just gets me thinking that “It ain’t fair” and can women really be winedrinkers safely at all, given the increasingly stringent gudielines? I’m not about to abstain and I’m not about to start spitting but I wonder how others, or others wives/girlfriends deal with this?
KBI

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My wife Mel will spontaneously combust any second now according to the above.

3

Go to tastings and spit. Then, find something you truly enjoy, go buy a bottle, put it in a Vinotemp 1 or two bottle dispenser and drink a glass a day or so until it’s done. Limitations on capacity/health issues don’t preclude women from participating in wine geekdom or enjoying wine.

4

First, I didn’t post on the now-infamous “Removed by Requestor” thread.

However, given my experience with two good friends who are alcoholics, I think that the notion that drinking a bottle of wine a day constitutes “problem drinking” is ridiculous. Indeed, that would’ve been less than my two friends’ “wake-up-hair-of-the-dog-quick-nip-prior-to-setting-off-to-work” drinking, back when they still drank.

Second, as Roberto pointed out, current “guidelines” on how much to drink are seriously abstemious by historical standards.

Third, given the poor track record of official “guidelines” with respect to other dietary issues, I am not sure that the alcohol guidelines are worth much of anything.

Fourth, I am not a doctor. I have no medical training or knowledge. Basing anything you do – health wise – upon what I say is probably the wrong step to take.

Finally, at my age, and after sober consideration of my ancestors’ longevity and causes of death (pick 'em – heart attack, cancer, alzheimer’s), I feel that, aside from regular exercise and ingestion of anti-cholesterol drugs, there is little I can do to extend my likely longevity or increase my quality of life near its end.

Accordingly, I’m not worried that my intake may be considered excessive by some. YMMV.

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FIrst. Welcome Katrina!

Then, I wouldn’t worry too much at your level of consumption. The equivalent of a glass of wine at lunch and one at dinner wouldn’t phase me. Now, add another glass at each meal, a caffe corretto in the morning, a pre-dinner cocktail and a digestif, and you have how I’d be living if I didn’t have to work.

Seriously, no harm in expanding your consumption here and there to try new things and expand your horizons. Daily aberations are meaningless (other than with respect to hangovers).

Please stay and participate. We need fewer female lurkers and more participants (if you can stand us)

6

I don’t know how you can possibly enjoy the complexities of a wine with just two 4 oz pours. It seems to me you would be better off splitting a bottle once or maybe even twice a week.

I did post in the Gary Cole thread that I limit myself to one beer a day and a bottle or two of wine only on the weekends. I should clarify that this is only because I wake up at 4:30 AM and am in the office by 5:30.

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Katrina, welcome and good for you for being proactive in thinking about your health choices. I like the suggestion above; I get by on less than a glass a day when I’m not attending a tasting, and I try to take a lot of days off. I actually find that following a bottle over a number of days is great for geekily delving into a wine deeply; I reseal in smaller bottles and refrigerate to eliminate oxidation to make the quality of the experience on subsequent nights as high as possible.

Also, each person has to decide on the level of additional health risk that is ok to them, from a total risk standpoint. If you can eliminate other risk factors like obesity by staying in good shape, eating well, etc. then maybe you don’t have to beat yourself up over a little extra risk from the occasional extra drink. If you have family history of breast cancer though, you might want to be more vigilant.

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Katrina, welcome. I’m in a somewhat similar boat. I’m concerned about the health issues of alcohol as well the empty calories, but a big issue is also that women don’t process alcohol as well as men (or so I’ve read - I have no scientific basis for that so don’t quote me) and I’m fairly petite so I can’t drink a lot without feeling the effects. If I drink a single glass of wine at a restaurant, I am legally intoxicated by the laws in my state (but in theory I’m OK if I wait an hour). I do most of my wine drinking at home, but there’s a limit to how many things I can try in a week. I drink wine almost every day, but most days it’s 1-2 glasses. Sometimes I go hog wild and have three (ie, a half bottle), but I can’t do that most days because at my height/weight that’s a lot of wine. (I don’t want to talk about my weight, but before some of you jump in and say that’s not a lot, remember that because of my weight a half bottle of wine for me is the equivalent of close to whole bottle to many people ). My SO drinks wine somewhat but is more into beer, so if I open a wine, half of it goes into a half bottle almost immediately and get’s recorked for the following day. But truth be told, I can’t drink a half bottle of wine most days anyway, so invariably I end up with open wines, and sometimes oxidized wines that get poured out.

From a collecting/tasting point of view it’s a huge problem, because I don’t get through many wines a week, and I have a many month backlog of things I’ve bought and want to try. Tasting groups help, but the “serious” tasting groups I’m a part of only meet 3-4 times a year which isn’t nearly enough to make a big difference. So, it is kind of limiting if you want to experience a vast amount of wines. If you have friends who are serious about wine, it’s a little easier, but overall, I share your frustration.

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If amounts are what you are concerned about, just gain a lot of weight. [tease.gif]

Seriously, my wife has the most incredible palate you could ever hope to find. She once indentified the species of oak they used in the barrels (I looked it up and she was right). She believes women are better at men in smell/taste anyway, and I think she is right. So, as a budding female oenophile, I say go and learn and be happy.

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I know a young Irish lass who can out drink me, and I know my mom can put it away. I don’t think it is strictly gender-related.

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I know quite a few ladies ITB in NYC who can hold their own with big boys like me…

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Jorge?

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No, these women are better looking and better dressed than Jorge (believe it or not!), and as I mentioned they can keep up with me, which is something you must know Jorge cannot do. [drinkers.gif]

The ladies always find a way to sneak in water. That seems to be the trick. Then they get up and run 5 miles at 6am as if they’re Peter C. I don’t get it. [training.gif]

14

Wow, thanks to everyone for the warm welcome! As a relative novice to the world of wine, I’ve learned A LOT (actually a huge amount) in a short time from lurking over the past few months, and am happy to be posting. Ironically, I too have an Irish background and, thus, it’s not that I can’t (and haven’t it my misspent youth) put it away, it’s just that maturity suggests that its not the best way to proceed. (Also I have a young daughter and would prefer not to have an early demise.)

Rachel, I think you’ve articulated better than I some of the issues with women and wine-drinking. Your level of consumption sounds very similar to mine-- and I also have a mounting backlog of things I want to try but can’t get to. Also, I very much enjoy lingering over dinner with two glasses of wine. My solution has been to drink lower alcohol wines such as reislings (no hardship there, really!!) but then I don’t get often to try the 14% +syrahs and pinots that are piling up. And forget about pricey champagne – I’m not about to open that bottle of $85 champagne that I sprung for if I can only have two 4oz glasses and watch the rest go flat. So while I’ve been intrigued by all the postings on here about grower champagne, and have even sprung for some bottles, I haven’t tried any yet.

I’m lucky in that my SO does like to drink wine, but a lot gets poured down the sink for us too – or put in the fridge for “cooking” and then that never happens. The completely frustrating part is that, even with limiting oneself to existing guidelines, one still appears to be running a risk. (I did a doubletake when I looked at the guidelines and saw that two five oz glasses of 12% was over the daily female limit.) I guess I’m going to stick with my new 2 X 4oz glasses limit (dropping down to one glass per day, as one poster sensibly suggested, just isn’t feasible for me. If that makes me alcohol dependent, and possibly putting myself at some increased risk, then so be it).

Anyway, it’s good to know that others are dealing with the same issues
Katrina

15

Yes, sparkling wine is a huge issue. I love them but almost never drink them at home for that reason.

Also agree that there’s a big difference between “don’t drink much” and “can’t drink much.” I think there’s a lot of women in this situation.

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Not to drag the subject of the previous thread into this one but I think this view is a bit misguided, Greg. Comparing drinking standards against what your alcoholic friends typically drink is a bit misguided don’t you think? I think a bottle a day would fall into a very large majority of people’s standards of abuse.

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Champagne won’t go flat with the right type of stopper and sometimes it’s better on subsequent days.

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This. If it’s real Champagne going flat is not much of an issue. If the best part of your sparkling wine is the bubbles then you are already behind. [wink.gif] Good, real Champagne like any other wine can get better with air. Don’t sweat the bubbles so much and you will often be surprised.

19

Ok this is why I love this forum. I learn a bunch of new stuff all the time. What would be the best type of stopper to recork champagne? Currently for regular wines I recork using one of those “vino seal” glass/plastic closures that I got from a reisling bottle. Would this work?
Katrina

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Chris and Tom, good to know, since I had essentially stayed away for fear it was akin to throwing money away.