Can a Vintage Port tawny?

WINE TALK
1

I could be wrong, but this sounds off. From Binny’s Top 10 of 2013 mailer today…

#1 2011 Dow’s Vintage Port
Extracted, complicated, ultra ripe, but not overripe like raisins. This blockbuster is so enjoyable as a young ruby, why wait 30 years for it to tawny?
John P., Wine Manager at Binny’s Skokie,

Member’s Price: $74.99 Shop now

Is waiting for a VP to tawny an actual thing? VP’s and Tawny ports to me are two completely different beverages. I’ve never heard this.

2

That is my understanding also. Maybe they are using tawny as a synonym for age??

George

3

Sure it can, but with a great vintage from a great producer it’s going to take a lot longer than 30 years.

Had an '83 Dow last night, btw. Not even close.

4

Doesn’t it have to be aged in the barrel to be considered a tawny? newhere

5

I didn’t know “tawny” was a verb.

6

Answer from John at Binny’s on his quote via email…

Vintage Port- Mother Natures gift to the world of port- is bottled after 2 years in cask, it is a ruby.
The finest ruby made.
After aging in the bottle for decades, Vintage Port becomes a Tawny. It throws a sediment which
is called crust, so old vintage ports should be decanted for clarity.

7

First rule of holes: When you’re in one, stop digging.

8

I don’t think he is correct. After 30 years or more a Vintage Port simply becomes an aged Vintage Port, retaining the basic vintage Port flavors. Maybe if you store it on a window sill, it might start to “resemble” a tawny! :slight_smile:

I’m sure there are strict legal definitions in Portugal.

9

There is an old saying I’ve heard. Vintage Port never dies, it just becomes a tawny.

That really isn’t true.

A tawny is aged in casks of various sizes and types depending on when it will be bottled or what type of Tawny it will be.

An old VP left in bottle for too long that matures past it’s best isn’t really a tawny. It may have some similar characteristics but I’ve never had an old VP which could have been confused with a old tawny.

And does he really think a 2011 Dow’s will turn to tawny in 30 years? Uh, no!

10

He needs a little Port education to polish the rough edges.

VP is legally required to be bottled between the second and third year after harvest. Though bottling can actually start taking place about 19 months after harvest. As we have just seen with the 2011 VP’s, most of which were bottled around May-June of 2013.

See my above answer for the tawny part.

11

And the difference isn’t just technical or picky. Tawny Port looks, smells and tastes completely different from aged Vintage Port.

12

What Andy said.

John at Binny’s should have come to a Port tasting there in Chicago two weeks ago. He’d have learned that old Vintage Ports, (we had 11 bottles of 1955) are nothing like Tawny Ports, as Andy and others have mentioned. Even at 150+ years old, they may look like tawny in color, but the characteristics are very different in taste. That being said, in terms of appearance alone, an old Vintage Port definitely can look like a tawny.

13

Jeez, this is kind of a dumb comment. It definitely shows a lack of knowledge about Port. As Andy and Roy noted, as VP ages it may take on some color characteristics of a tawny as the tannins mellow and the red color falls out of solution, but it never really starts to taste like a tawny because it doesn’t have the exposure to wood the same way the tawny does. It’s interesting to note however that one of the 1955s at the tasting Roy mentioned, which I attended, was a Dow that everyone agreed was an off bottle. However, it was pretty drinkable and had distinct caramel flavors that one could easily take as a tawny.

I sent John P an email with an explanation. I’ll let you all know what I hear back.

14

If a vintage Port by miracle could turn into a tawny, it wouldn’t be a tawny but a Colheita.

15

Correct.

16

Or we can get real technical…a Colheita can only be called a Colheita if it is declared as a Colheita to the IVDP within the prescribed time limit. Otherwise, it’s just an old NV tawny.

So technically, an old VP that miraculously turns into a tawny in bottle, could not be a Colheita as it wasn’t declared as such within the allotted time. [berserker.gif]

17

And how long is that allotted time limit, Andy?

18

Up to 7 years after harvest, IIRC.

19

So, at the same time that the Port is “officially considered” a Colheita?

20

Hi Roy,

That is my birth year and I have enoyed the 55 taylors but not had much experience of the other houses. Are your tasting notes on FTLOP ?

Anthony.