Calling out bad barrels

[John_Cabot]

While firming up barrels for this year I was going through my cellar remembering all the barrels that produced aromas and flavors I didn’t like- dill, heavy cedar, coconut, whiskey barrel . Nothing worse than having to bulk/declassify an otherwise killer wine, because you put it in a barrel you didn’t end up liking. I’d love to see a list of these barrels so we can all avoid them in the future. Granted, we are all making different styles of wine and therefore, will be looking for different characters in our “oak”.

Maybe another list of barrels you do like and why, would be useful as well.

Lets here em guys and girls.

[ToddFrench]

@John Cabot

While firming up barrels for this year I was going through my cellar remembering all the barrels that produced aromas and flavors I didn’t like- dill, heavy cedar, coconut, whiskey barrel . Nothing worse than having to bulk/declassify an otherwise killer wine, because you put it in a barrel you didn’t end up liking. I’d love to see a list of these barrels so we can all avoid them in the future. Granted, we are all making different styles of wine and therefore, will be looking for different characters in our “oak”.

Maybe another list of barrels you do like and why, would be useful as well.

Lets here em guys and girls.

If you don’t like the barrels, turn them into chandeliers and sell them for $2500 each!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[John_Cabot]

@Todd F r e n c h

@John Cabot

While firming up barrels for this year I was going through my cellar remembering all the barrels that produced aromas and flavors I didn’t like- dill, heavy cedar, coconut, whiskey barrel . Nothing worse than having to bulk/declassify an otherwise killer wine, because you put it in a barrel you didn’t end up liking. I’d love to see a list of these barrels so we can all avoid them in the future. Granted, we are all making different styles of wine and therefore, will be looking for different characters in our “oak”.

Maybe another list of barrels you do like and why, would be useful as well.

Lets here em guys and girls.

If you don’t like the barrels, turn them into chandeliers and sell them for $2500 each!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That’s pretty sweet, I missed that one before.

[Linda_Baehr]

Kelvin Cooperage. Did very little, and what they did do wasn’t very good.
Keystone- also bleh. IIRC, they gave some sort of funky (not in a good way) butterscotch flavor.
Roberts & Son- not bad necessarily, just not very good/worth the $$.

[Bryan_Parker]

I am not fond of the dill, coconut or heavy cedar flavors either. Mostly I find these in American Oak but I have been finding it more and more in some French oak too (less seasoning?)

I like the American Oak sourced from Pennsylvania, other regions less so. I have not tried the Keystone barrels, but I do like Saury, Marchive and Nadalie versions.

I have heard Roberts & Sons are no longer making barrels.

-Bryan

[Sarah_Warner]

@Todd F r e n c h

@John Cabot

While firming up barrels for this year I was going through my cellar remembering all the barrels that produced aromas and flavors I didn’t like- dill, heavy cedar, coconut, whiskey barrel . Nothing worse than having to bulk/declassify an otherwise killer wine, because you put it in a barrel you didn’t end up liking. I’d love to see a list of these barrels so we can all avoid them in the future. Granted, we are all making different styles of wine and therefore, will be looking for different characters in our “oak”.

Maybe another list of barrels you do like and why, would be useful as well.

Lets here em guys and girls.

If you don’t like the barrels, turn them into chandeliers and sell them for $2500 each!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or — John–I need a bar table. A barrel would be so COOL as a bar table!

[Mark_Cochard]

@Linda Baehr

Kelvin Cooperage. Did very little, and what they did do wasn’t very good.
Keystone- also bleh. IIRC, they gave some sort of funky (not in a good way) butterscotch flavor.
Roberts & Son- not bad necessarily, just not very good/worth the $$.

We kinda like Keystone’s but only use it for 3 single vineyard chambourcin’s that we make. I know oxymoron hybrid and single vineyard. I have noticed some butter in the wines but could that be from M-L and not the barrel?

[John_Cabot]

@Bryan Parker

I am not fond of the dill, coconut or heavy cedar flavors either. Mostly I find these in American Oak but I have been finding it more and more in some French oak too (less seasoning?)

We haven’t used any american oak in years, but I’ve gotten the flavors/aromas mentioned above out of Seguin Moreau FO many times.

I really like Hungarian/eastern euopean with it’s baking spice components, mostly on the back end. For french, I have been going with Rousseau, Cadus, Mercury, FF, and Doreau.

[John_Cabot]

@Sarah Warner

@Todd F r e n c h

@John Cabot

While firming up barrels for this year I was going through my cellar remembering all the barrels that produced aromas and flavors I didn’t like- dill, heavy cedar, coconut, whiskey barrel . Nothing worse than having to bulk/declassify an otherwise killer wine, because you put it in a barrel you didn’t end up liking. I’d love to see a list of these barrels so we can all avoid them in the future. Granted, we are all making different styles of wine and therefore, will be looking for different characters in our “oak”.

Maybe another list of barrels you do like and why, would be useful as well.

Lets here em guys and girls.

If you don’t like the barrels, turn them into chandeliers and sell them for $2500 each!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or — John–I need a bar table. A barrel would be so COOL as a bar table!

I have seen many examples of these and they are pretty cool. You can put a shelf inside and cut a door and put hinges on it so it is storage and a table. I wish I could find a pict. of this.

I’m not looking to start another business though. [suicide.gif]

Sarah, do you ever see whole (used) barrels for sale down there?

[Linda_Baehr]

@Mark Cochard

@Linda Baehr

Kelvin Cooperage. Did very little, and what they did do wasn’t very good.
Keystone- also bleh. IIRC, they gave some sort of funky (not in a good way) butterscotch flavor.
Roberts & Son- not bad necessarily, just not very good/worth the $$.

We kinda like Keystone’s but only use it for 3 single vineyard chambourcin’s that we make. I know oxymoron hybrid and single vineyard. I have noticed some butter in the wines but could that be from M-L and not the barrel?

The other non-Keystone bbls in the same lot did not taste like this, and we had seen the same flavor profile in more than one lot. '05 was that last year we bought them.

[Mark_Cochard]

@Linda Baehr

@Mark Cochard

@Linda Baehr

Kelvin Cooperage. Did very little, and what they did do wasn’t very good.
Keystone- also bleh. IIRC, they gave some sort of funky (not in a good way) butterscotch flavor.
Roberts & Son- not bad necessarily, just not very good/worth the $$.

We kinda like Keystone’s but only use it for 3 single vineyard chambourcin’s that we make. I know oxymoron hybrid and single vineyard. I have noticed some butter in the wines but could that be from M-L and not the barrel?

The other non-Keystone bbls in the same lot did not taste like this, and we had seen the same flavor profile in more than one lot. '05 was that last year we bought them.

Thanks, I’ll pass your comments on to the guys/gals in the cellar

[Linda_Baehr]

@Mark Cochard

@Linda Baehr

@Mark Cochard

We kinda like Keystone’s but only use it for 3 single vineyard chambourcin’s that we make. I know oxymoron hybrid and single vineyard. I have noticed some butter in the wines but could that be from M-L and not the barrel?

The other non-Keystone bbls in the same lot did not taste like this, and we had seen the same flavor profile in more than one lot. '05 was that last year we bought them.

Thanks, I’ll pass your comments on to the guys/gals in the cellar

I believe we had Zin in all of them. The flavor profile might be different with a different grape. YMMV.

[Mark_Cochard]

If I can remeber I’ll send you a bottle of our chambourcin to see if you pick up the flavors you saw with the zin in our wine. PM/email a shipping address.

[Andrew_Weber]

@Sarah Warner

@Todd F r e n c h

@John Cabot

While firming up barrels for this year I was going through my cellar remembering all the barrels that produced aromas and flavors I didn’t like- dill, heavy cedar, coconut, whiskey barrel . Nothing worse than having to bulk/declassify an otherwise killer wine, because you put it in a barrel you didn’t end up liking. I’d love to see a list of these barrels so we can all avoid them in the future. Granted, we are all making different styles of wine and therefore, will be looking for different characters in our “oak”.

Maybe another list of barrels you do like and why, would be useful as well.

Lets here em guys and girls.

If you don’t like the barrels, turn them into chandeliers and sell them for $2500 each!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or — John–I need a bar table. A barrel would be so COOL as a bar table!

Sarah, I would be happy to bring you a barrel. I have some that are no longer in service…

[Peter_Cargasacchi]

Every now and then you find a new barrel that is corked. They happen, make sure you find them before you put wine in them.

[DennisSolin]

You can shop them the bad ones and use the wood in a smoker!

[Sarah_Warner]

@Andrew Weber

@Sarah Warner

@Todd F r e n c h

If you don’t like the barrels, turn them into chandeliers and sell them for $2500 each!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or — John–I need a bar table. A barrel would be so COOL as a bar table!

Sarah, I would be happy to bring you a barrel. I have some that are no longer in service…

That would be so awesome!

[john_holdredge]

@John Cabot

[We haven’t used any american oak in years, but I’ve gotten the flavors/aromas mentioned above out of Seguin Moreau FO many times.
.

Interesting. When I read your post my first thought was in 2002 when I did some barrel trials and the Seguin barrels (supposedly their best pinot barrels) reeked of dill- sold that wine off in bulk and swore to never use their product again. And yet, I believe Brian Loring (IIRC) is a real fan and has ahd a very different experience…

[John_Cabot]

@john holdredge

@John Cabot

[We haven’t used any american oak in years, but I’ve gotten the flavors/aromas mentioned above out of Seguin Moreau FO many times.
.

Interesting. When I read your post my first thought was in 2002 when I did some barrel trials and the Seguin barrels (supposedly their best pinot barrels) reeked of dill- sold that wine off in bulk and swore to never use their product again. And yet, I believe Brian Loring (IIRC) is a real fan and has ahd a very different experience…

I agree completely. I am always baffled when I see stacks of Seguin barrels in wineries. Are they making pickles or wine?
What cooperage do you use now on your Pinot’s, Zin, and Syrah, John- IYDMMA?

[Brian_Loring]

We’ve had really good luck with the Seguin Moreau French pinot barrels. Usually very high-toned spice from them. No dill.

But I am starting to lean more towards Rousseau Video, Remond Allier, Ermitage Allier/Bertranges (mixed staves), Meyrieux, and Francois Freres 3 year Bertranges.