Cali Cabs. Can a $75 bottle really be a good QPR?

[AKuehn]

@mike pobega

@G. D y e r

@Chris Seiber

QPR means quality to price ratio. A wine at any price could be good or bad QPR – it’s just a relative measure using price and quality as the variables.

Let’s try to quantify this a bit:

Price = P
Quality = Q = 1 - exp[- b P]

Quality ranges from 0 (at P = 0$) to 1 (at P → infinity$). The constant ‘b’ determines how rapidly quality asymptotically approaches perfection as price increases.

QPR is the price to quality ratio:

QPR = Q/P

The maximum QPR is found at:

d QPR/ dP = 0 → P = 0

Math is the reason I cut out of class in 11th grade, now I wish I had went…

I guess you cut English, too.

[mike_pobega]

As a matter of fact…

[johngonzales]

@Corey N.

@johngonzales

They’re casual friends of mine.

Can you confirm that Betty O’Shaughnessy is gregarious?

As insignificant it is, yes, I actually can.

They have some interesting parties wine-wise where they open 50+ onesies of aged wide-ranging wine. It makes stepping up to the bars pretty fun. Her husband has a good amount of geeky wine knowledge. I met Bipin Desai there, which was very cool.

Again though, one never knows about tasting room atmosphere. My wife sells wine (not O’Shau) so we get treated very well at the facilities of her brands. Last year we went to a very good and well-known RRV pinot producer with an appointment. They were incredibly rude. I really like their wine, but it definitely soured me some.

[Jim_V_a_n_P_e_l_t]

@stanb

O’Shaughnessy is the only $75 QPR

If only because ACV Reserve can usually be found for $65

[Jim_V_a_n_P_e_l_t]

@G. D y e r

@Chris Seiber

QPR means quality to price ratio. A wine at any price could be good or bad QPR – it’s just a relative measure using price and quality as the variables.

Let’s try to quantify this a bit:

Price = P
Quality = Q = 1 - exp[- b P]

Quality ranges from 0 (at P = 0$) to 1 (at P → infinity$). The constant ‘b’ determines how rapidly quality asymptotically approaches perfection as price increases.

QPR is the price to quality ratio:

QPR = Q/P

The maximum QPR is found at:

d QPR/ dP = 0 → P = 0

In reality, wine quality is not a deterministic function. There’s a distribution of quality (subjective person to person). That allows for finite priced wines to be excellent QPRs. But as long as QPR is Q/P and Q(P) is sub-linear, it is highly unlikely any expensive wine offers a good Quality-to-Price Ratio. At best, expensive wines can be better QPRs than price peers, but not great QPRs in an absolute sense.

If buying a a case of tasty $75 cabs mitigates my need to go “all in” on a 3-pack of Scarecrow, those $75 bottles are a QPR for me. Lack of understanding re: the above math notwithstanding;).

[stanb]

@Jim Van Pelt

@stanb

O’Shaughnessy is the only $75 QPR

If only because ACV Reserve can usually be found for $65

ACV tends to be thrown off balance by acidity, which is usually the case with inexpensive wines. I’d much rather cough up the extra $10 for balance, structure and complexity.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@stanb

@Jim Van Pelt

@stanb

O’Shaughnessy is the only $75 QPR

If only because ACV Reserve can usually be found for $65

ACV tends to be thrown off balance by acidity, which is usually the case with inexpensive wines. I’d much rather cough up the extra $10 for balance, structure and complexity.

What?

I have this funny feeling you have some relationship with O’Shaughnessy…

[stanb]

If only because ACV Reserve can usually be found for $65 [/quote]

ACV tends to be thrown off balance by acidity, which is usually the case with inexpensive wines. I’d much rather cough up the extra $10 for balance, structure and complexity.[/quote]

What?

I have this funny feeling you have some relationship with O’Shaughnessy…[/quote]

I don’t. It’s just the best tasting bottle in that price range, in my opinion

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Two things:

1. I am lost on your acidity comment.

2. This is a real names board. Please provide your last name in your signature line.

[stanb]

@Bill Tex Landreth

Two things:

1. I am lost on your acidity comment.

2. This is a real names board. Please provide your last name in your signature line.

1. To me an outstanding wine is determined by it structure, complexity, (and most importantly) balance. I’m my experience with ACV the acidity stands out more than the fruit and oak, it isn’t in balance. Do you disagree? Do you think their wines are perfectly balanced?

2. b

[Fred_Bower]

@AKuehn

@Greg Smith

…if you took your top 5 $45 Cabs and your top 5 $75 Cabs is there a BIG enough jump in quality to justify the extra $30/bottle? I understand King Cab’s point above about that $75 bottle that drinks better than other $75 bottles but my point is are there diminishing returns with Cali Cabs between the $45 and $75 price-points where the extra $30 is not buying you that much more in quality?

How much is $30 worth to you? If $30 is not a price difference worth worrying about, then you could easily think it is stupid NOT to pay the extra $30 for even a slightly better wine. Personally, I’m not in that position, and I have a hard time putting up $75+ for any wine, even one I’m very sure I will like a lot. On the other hand, the work it takes trying to find a palatable $10 bottle makes me fish around in the $20 range much more often than most non-wine-geek people I know, for whom $20 is quite the extravagant bottle. Some of those folks think nothing of paying $50+ per seat for a sporting event or $100+ per seat for concert tickets, something I do maybe once a year.

Value is completely relative to personal income and preferences.

Extremely well put. I will add that the comparison game is a fallacy to me. If you drink two wines, side by side, and prefer one to the other, the conclusion that it is universally a better wine is wrong. You simply liked one better now. The exercise repeated under a different set of circumstances may have a different result. If, over time, you determine that you consistently prefer one wine to another, then one can have a fair conversation about QPR or value determination.

Cheers,
fred

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@stanb

@Bill Tex Landreth

Two things:

1. I am lost on your acidity comment.

2. This is a real names board. Please provide your last name in your signature line.

1. To me an outstanding wine is determined by it structure, complexity, (and most importantly) balance. I’m my experience with ACV the acidity stands out more than the fruit and oak, it isn’t in balance. Do you disagree? Do you think their wines are perfectly balanced?

2. b

OK, I will play troll hockey.

1. Your comment is that cheap wines are acid monsters and $10 buys you balance. I have had perfectly balanced $50 wines from Napa, and I do find ACV Right Bank and Reserve Cab to be extremely balanced.

2. I have reported this attempt at humour to the site administrator.

[stanb]

@Bill Tex Landreth

@stanb

@Bill Tex Landreth

Two things:

1. I am lost on your acidity comment.

2. This is a real names board. Please provide your last name in your signature line.

1. To me an outstanding wine is determined by it structure, complexity, (and most importantly) balance. I’m my experience with ACV the acidity stands out more than the fruit and oak, it isn’t in balance. Do you disagree? Do you think their wines are perfectly balanced?

2. b

OK, I will play troll hockey.

1. Your comment is that cheap wines are acid monsters and $10 buys you balance. I have had perfectly balanced $50 wines from Napa, and I do find ACV Right Bank and Reserve Cab to be extremely balanced.

2. I have reported this attempt at humour to the site administrator.

1. Most cheap wines are acid monsters. $10 does not buy balance, but $75 does - along with structure and complexity. Name a few of those $50 wines.

2. Thank you.

[Corey_N]

@Bill Tex Landreth

2. I have reported this attempt at humour to the site administrator.

Clearly Mr. B is not as gregarious as Betty O’Shaughnessy.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Corey N.

@Bill Tex Landreth

2. I have reported this attempt at humour to the site administrator.

Clearly Mr. B is not as gregarious as Betty O’Shaughnessy.

Not enough pears in their respective diets I suppose.

[ToddFrench]

Mr. Barrios, I’ve sent you a PM requesting you add your last name to your signature, and would appreciate if you would. The rest of the members here do provide great help in policing this rule we have on Wine Berserkers.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@stanb

$10 does not buy balance, but $75 does - along with structure and complexity.

You really need to learn how to argue better.

@stanb

I’d much rather cough up the extra $10 for balance, structure and complexity.

[Corey_N]

@Bill Tex Landreth

Not enough pears in their respective diets I suppose.

Appearantly so.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Corey N.

@Bill Tex Landreth

Not enough pears in their respective diets I suppose.

Appearantly so.

Nice.

[Corey_N]

Love the new avatar.