CA wine for Francophiles

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

To clarify my own position, and support what several others have said, I don’t for a minute think there’s no good wine made in California. There’s a ton of excellent wine made of many different types and styles. Nor am I saying that someone who prefers old world wines, like myself for instance, will dislike every single type and style made in CA. But I don’t have to have tasted every producer or sub-region or style before legitimately deciding that, in general, it’s not my thing and I choose to focus on what actually excites me. Does it happen occasionally that I’m served a CA wine that I like? Sure it does! Does that bottle/experience make me want to keep exploring CA wines just in case there are a few more of them? No, it doesn’t.

So really my question is this: why would you WANT to “bring someone around” to CA wines? What’s the point? Other than maybe to say “Ha! Look, I finally got you!” If that’s fun for you between friends, then for sure have fun. If it’s really trying to convince someone because you think they should like CA wines as much as French (perhaps because you do?)…well, that makes me shake my head.

Look, no cellar needs CA wines (or any particular region, for that matter) to be full of variety and pleasure. Excluding CA wines doesn’t leave any true functional gaps in the cellar. Real gaps would be, in my mind, something like a cellar that has no white wine, which is missing important food pairing tools in my opinion. Of course, some people don’t really care about pairings in the same way that I do, which is fine, too.

If the OP’s friend is really interested in expanding into CA wines, that’s different. But if it’s a matter of someone knowing their palate enough to make a call about what kind of exploration interests them and what doesn’t, then I question the point of pushing it.

[Anton_D]

And I had a Country Squire!

You should write a ballad!!!

[Jayson_Cohen]

And I had a Country Squire!

You should write a ballad!!!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Mine was a POS but could fit a shitload of people.

[Arv_R]

You’ve got a lot of great suggestions in this thread. Like your friend, I enjoy BDX and Rhones too, but certainly have plenty of California wines.

It’s a huge state, with lots of varietals, terrain, and styles so the idea that someone has excluded the whole region out of hand - especially with a limited amount of experience tasting - only hurts their potential enjoyment.

My strong suggestion would be to figure out a way to have the tasting double blind. That’s a good way to clear away preconceived notions when people have to really taste what’s in the glass, rather than looking at a label.

Have fun and let us know how it works out!

[Dan_Kravitz]

Agree with a blind tasting, but maybe does not have to be double blind.

Mount Eden Cabernet at ~30 years of age would probably be my single first choice. For white, I might go with Araujo Sauvignon Blanc.

Dan Kravitz

[Mattstolz]

I would agree with the ones who have said that I wouldn’t try to convince them that California wines are like French ones. in that route, you are already setting a standard where the highest you can go is equal to French wines (can you be better at being French than France? Charlie Chaplin did lose a look alike contest!). I would instead try to convince them that California wines have a place in their cellar as well, and would go with the old vine field blends like Ridge and Bedrock (and old Ravenswood if you happened to get any of that!) as my evidence. Cody from Bedrock’s new project is also fantastic. The other thing I would consider reaching for is a new-er CA style wine like Dirty and Rowdy, Scar of the Sea, etc. there isnt really an equivalent to those being made anywhere else.

[Lee_Short]

Chris brings up a great point. We really have no idea of what the Francophile’s depth of exposure to California wine is, which is also crucial in trying to figure out how to approach this.

Zero exposure really. He decided to get into wine 5 years ago and dove immediately into BDX and Rhone.

OK. Can you tell us if he likes more modern styles in those regions, or more classical styles, or somewhere in between, Kevin? That also would be useful. Frankly, if they like the modern styles in those regions, it really seems like they ought to also like many or even most California wines made from the same grapes, and blind tastings might be what is needed to break through some preconceptions, and close mindedness might be the real issue. If they like the classical or in-between styles, then more restrained California producers are probably more in their wheelhouse. I’ll run under the assumption that this is case, but clarification would be useful.

Others are probably going to be more useful guides than I will here, as neither Bdx or Southern Rhone are things I like enough to drink much — and I rarely drink their California counterparts. So here are my suggestions, but be aware that these aren’t wines I drink a lot of, so others’ advice may be better: Cabernet or bdx blends from Mount Eden, Briceland, Dunn, Stony Hill; and Syrah from Cabot, Edmunds St John, Halcon. With the caveat that Syrah is more of a Northern Rhone grape, but I don’t drink enough Grenache / Mourvedre / etc. wines from California to have any recommendations there.

Honestly, it sounds like your friend hasn’t branched out much in France, either. Is that actually the case? Has he tried wines from other French regions? Did he like them?

[Zachary_Mancini]

Agree with a blind tasting, but maybe does not have to be double blind.

Mount Eden Cabernet at ~30 years of age would probably be my single first choice. For white, I might go with Araujo Sauvignon Blanc.

Dan Kravitz

Eisele Sauv Blanc is a masterpiece. My favorite Sauv Blanc by far.

[Keith_Levenberg]

What’s really the point of this exercise? Sure, you can pour a Ceritas chardonnay to a francophile and they will enjoy it and probably find it as good as their usual fare. But what does that actually prove? They are not going to say, “O how tragic! Only now in this late hour do I see how closed-minded I was! At once, we must fill the cellar with California wine!” They will say, “Cool, glad there’s another CA producer making good stuff amidst that massive ocean of crap.”

[Eric_Lundblad]

What’s really the point of this exercise? Sure, you can pour a Ceritas chardonnay to a francophile and they will enjoy it and probably find it as good as their usual fare. But what does that actually prove? They are not going to say, “O how tragic! Only now in this late hour do I see how closed-minded I was! At once, we must fill the cellar with California wine!” They will say, “Cool, glad there’s another CA producer making good stuff amidst that massive ocean of crap.”

The point of this exercise? For you, none, of course. For folks that are exploring regions/producers, stereotypes are rarely useful…and for many of the producers they’re never useful.

And, in the case of White Burgundy, there are various west coast producers that produce Chardonnay, mine included (they need air!), that scratches that itch at a fraction of the WB price…depending on the vintage, but unfortunately that qualifier applies to White Burg now too.

[PatrickW]

Not exactly what you were asking, but knowing your friend is a BDX fan, you may want to consider Washington as well. Lots of great examples to consider. A couple favorites that come to mind are Andrew Will and JB Neufeld.

[ybarselah]

how come folks are always looking for new world wines that taste like old world, but never the other way around?

also, the question presumes the variety of new world wines is greater than that of old world?

[Howard_Cooper]

And, in the case of White Burgundy, there are various west coast producers that produce Chardonnay, mine included (they need air!), that scratches that itch at a fraction of the WB price…depending on the vintage, but unfortunately that qualifier applies to White Burg now too.

[Eric_Lundblad]

And, in the case of White Burgundy, there are various west coast producers that produce Chardonnay, mine included (they need air!), that scratches that itch at a fraction of the WB price…depending on the vintage, but unfortunately that qualifier applies to White Burg now too.

I’ve been in blind tasting groups, that have included MWs and MSs, who have called various WC Chards as White Burgs.

[Dan_Kravitz]

how come folks are always looking for new world wines that taste like old world, but never the other way around?

also, the question presumes the variety of new world wines is greater than that of old world?

In my business world, I have a lot of people looking for Old World wines that taste like New World. “Pure, simple fresh fruit with less of the funk, please” is a regular request.

Dan Kravitz

[Howard_Cooper]

And, in the case of White Burgundy, there are various west coast producers that produce Chardonnay, mine included (they need air!), that scratches that itch at a fraction of the WB price…depending on the vintage, but unfortunately that qualifier applies to White Burg now too.

I’ve been in blind tasting groups, that have included MWs and MSs, who have called various WC Chards as White Burgs.

This reminds me of the owner of a wine store I used to shop at a lot. He knew that my favorite wines were by Jacky Truchot. So, every time he had a new Burgundy producer he tried to get me to buy the wine by saying that the wine was Truchot-like. Many of the wines he recommended to me were quite nice in their own right but stylistically were nothing like the wines of Jacky Truchot. I cannot remember the last time I bought wine from this store.

[Marshall_Manning]

“Close minded” is not a particularly enlightened phrase for a lot of francophiles (I would say europhiles, actually). I would argue you’re more likely to find “close minded” folks who only drink california cabs, or disdain white wine of any kind (for example). Most europhiles I know have pretty well developed palates, have gone through varied wine travels exploring a wide range of domestic and international wines, and have focused on wines they enjoy most. That doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy new world wines, across the spectrum, but frankly there are wines and styles I just don’t enjoy, and it’s not because I haven’t explored them, or am close minded.

This.

Many of us with Euro-leaning palates started out with CA as our first area of interest, yet drifted away as we got more education, experience, and as styles in CA became more jammy, oaky, ponderous, and less food-friendly. I don’t enjoy those types of wine from France or Italy, either, so it has nothing to do with any type of favoritism for a particular country.

[RichardFlack]

You’ve got a lot of great suggestions in this thread. Like your friend, I enjoy BDX and Rhones too, but certainly have plenty of California wines.

It’s a huge state, with lots of varietals, terrain, and styles so the idea that someone has excluded the whole region out of hand - especially with a limited amount of experience tasting - only hurts their potential enjoyment.

My strong suggestion would be to figure out a way to have the tasting double blind. That’s a good way to clear away preconceived notions when people have to really taste what’s in the glass, rather than looking at a label.

Have fun and let us know how it works out!

And for sure include at least one Bordeaux or CdP

[Jay_Miller]

how come folks are always looking for new world wines that taste like old world, but never the other way around?

Perhaps because it’s so easy to find them?

[Jay_Miller]

here’s what’s worked for me

Mount Eden
Goodfellow (especially the chardonnays)
Rhys (especially the chardonnays and syrahs)
Scherrer Zin
aged Arcadian
Navarro late harvest sweet wines
'70s Cal Cabs
really aged Dunn
Edmunds St. John