By The Glass ??

WINE TALK
1

If I knew how I would post a poll, but that is far above my technical skills. I am doing some research on wine by the glass thoughts, and experiences and thought you guys would be a great audience to ask.

Do you enjoy the BTG option
How often will you choose this over a bottle
How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG
Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine
What is your general response to a “bad” glass
Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs
When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first
Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines
If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection

Thanks for all your thoughts and time
Linda

2
  1. I don’t often enjoy BTG, because, generally speaking, it is a farcical ripoff.
  2. Very, very rarely. There must be a standout on the list that catches my eye…for a reasonable price…which never happens
  3. I feel like, generally speaking, BTG is the lowest quality at worst QPR. I know that as a rule, many restaurants charge the wholesale cost of the bottle as the BTG price. Sometimes, it is the retail cost of the bottle at the BTG price. That is hard to swallow.
  4. Every now and then, especially if the BTG list is long, or if the restaurant is less than stellar. I am still shocked at how many restaurants use open bottles and just shove a cork back in the top one or two nights, instead of using a nitrogen system.
  5. Response is to ask if the bottle was open, then ask for a fresh pour, or something different
  6. Pricing is rough. The restaurant whose wine list I ran sold the BTG at the wholesale price per bottle. It was a very high end restaurant, and we killed on BTG. I worked my ass off to give customers the best “deal” they could get QPR-wise, but that $9 glass of Bogle chard is tough…The $15 glass of Kim Crawford Sav Blan (or something of the sort during summer) was even tougher to swallow…but couples would sit and have 3 glasses each and spend $90, instead of buying something great off the list.
  7. If I plan on having more than one glass of wine, I will probably look at the half bottle list, or the full bottle list.
  8. Yes, I am disappointed by the BTG selection 99% of the time.
  9. Probably not. If my palate does not allow me to realize the wine is oxidized, I am not in a position to send it back. If I do recognize the wine as oxidized, I am going to get a fresh pour somehow, or will not be paying for the glass.
3
  1. I like having the option, in theory.
  2. If I’m dining with wine geek friends, we’re bringing wine and corkage policy plays a role in determining the restaurant. Ding with others, I’ll look at the btg list (which is usually a disappointment) and decide if I’ll order or not.
  3. Usually pathetic.
  4. I usually have the sense to not order btg (or wine at all) at a place that has no f’ing clue about serving wine.
  5. Return it.
  6. Pricing is often a joke. Restaurants should be encouraging customers to order wine with interesting, exciting, ready-to-drink, food-friendly, reasonably priced selections. That helps build a base of loyal customers, it creates a buzz. Very different than the typical cynical or indifferent policies at most restaurants.
  7. Sometimes, yes.
  8. Yes.
  9. Yes.
4

Linda, I know where you’re going with this and I’ll suggest that this is the wrong group of people to research - if you want your research to have any validity.

5
  1. Sometimes.
  2. At a restaurant with a good wine program when I will want two different glasses with different courses.
  3. Where I do it, pretty good. A great Italian place that I frequent pours BTG off of their reserve list on weekends.
  4. Not at this place!
  5. Ask for something else - nobody has ever declined.
  6. Sure, it’s generally seen as a rip-off, but no more so (IMHO) than restaurant wine pricing in general. Again, if I’ll want a couple of different glasses with dinner, it’s hardly more money than buying a bottle of the most expensive of the wines.
  7. No - because it wasn’t the point of ordering one.
  8. Not usually where I do this. Sometimes if I order a flight with dinner I might be disappointed with a wine - but, again, I don’t do this in the kind of restaurant where I would anticipate an issue.
  9. No - because I’ll address that issue, anyway.

I know that BTG and pairings are seen as a big rip off, but the ability to match individual wines with individual courses is a value added. So I don’t find them a bigger rip-off, in theory, than restaurant wine pricing or a some corkage, in general.

6

Thoughtful and complete replies so far, thanks guys. Bob as to your comment, I realize most that lurk around here are not the “average” wine consumer, or perhaps many are ? Given that, I know that often times when out for lunch or not wanting to worry about wine, folks will and do just enjoy a glass or a “lesser” bottle. What comes to my mind is that at lunch I dont want a bottle, when out to dinner with friends we may not all agree or even be wine drinkers. Other times, I am out to simply enjoy someones company and/or food without over thinking the wine component.
Keep your thoughts coming, they are great.
Thanks
Linda

7

Do you enjoy the BTG option
YES

How often will you choose this over a bottle
OCCASIONALLY, USUALLY AS A SUPPLEMENT BEFORE OR AFTER A BOTTLE IS FINISHED AND WE JUST WANT TO SHARE ONE MORE GLASS

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG
USUALLY POOR. MANY PLACES USE THEIR WBTG PROGRAM AS A MEANS TO DUMP INVENTORY THAT IS NOT MOVING.

Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine
YES

What is your general response to a “bad” glass
I ALWAYS ASK FOR A TASTE FIRST SO IF I DONT LIKE IT OR ITS FLAWED I GET SOMETHING ELSE

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs
ABSURD

When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first
SEE ANSWER 2

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines
YES

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection
NO

8

Do you enjoy the BTG option
No

How often will you choose this over a bottle
Never. I’ll buy beer first.

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG
Usually they suck.

Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine
What is your general response to a “bad” glass

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs
I resent covering the cost of the entire bottle with a single glass.

When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines
Yes

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection
No

9

Do you enjoy the BTG option - most often no, but there are places here and there that can make it fun. We have The Blind Monk in West Palm that as 90 wines by the glass, 300 by bottle. They have a nice cross selection of old world, new world wines.Went to a fun place in NYC that had only old world wines and wines from middle east.

How often will you choose this over a bottle - if I am at a place that has a big variety of wines from places I’d like to try, yeah. If its your average restaurant, I bring my own and pay the corkage. I rarely buy bottles of wine out.

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG - depends on where you are, most often not great. A few places make it fun though.

Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine - occasionally
What is your general response to a “bad” glass - I get them to replace it with a good one.

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs - lets face it, you dont BTG for the value…

When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first - probably not, i am usually into trying different thing when at a place that i will BTG

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines - again, most places yeah, but there are some fun places to go and try different wines…

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection - prob not, if the wine is off I expect them to do the right thing.

10

Yes I enjoy BTG. My wife and I seldom do a whole bottle, so either BTG or splits are welcome.
Only choose a bottle when the kids/grandkids are along and we have at least 3 wine drinkers.
Quality is hit and miss. Some places are great, some are borderline awful.
Don’t often get an oxidized glass.
Usually ignore a bad glass, particularly if it was cheap enough.
Like quality, price depends on the place.
Virtually never order a second glass.
Selection is like quality and price - all over the map.
Since I’ve never has an oxidized glass, that makes no difference.

11

I like the way they do it in Europe, if you dont want a bottle then you can get a carafe of the house wine which more times than not is just fine. BTG in the states is a rip to say the least.
There are exceptions to the rule though, for instance a string of higher end Italian eateries in US uses the quartino pour (1/4 of a bottle) and another place i frequent in Venice Beach sets the bottle(s) down on table and you just help yourself. True honor system, if you like it you pour it, if you dont you dont.

12

I like BTG because sometimes I may get steak when she gets fish, or maybe we start with bubbles and move onto something different with the entree.
I probably go 50/50
BTG selections are not always very good, some do very well with them. Probably 50/50 again.
Oxidized…maybe 10% of the time.
I’ll say something if it is really bad, they are typically nice about it.
Pricing is high, but you should get a good pour (1/5th of bottle maybe) and pay 25% of the full bottle price. Obviously it shouldn’t be AS good as the bottle price, because then everyone would go BTG. But don’t push it too far.
I typically go BTG because I want to switch it up, but if something rocked my world I will get another.
Disappointed? Yes sometimes…see above.
To KNOW it wouldn’t be oxidized would be very nice, but if you are talking about one of those Enomatic Wine systems…the concept is nice but the pricing has been horrible at 100% of the places I’ve been to. I don’t do those anymore.

13

Long story short, BTG is usually a terrible option – poor quality, way overpriced, etc.

However, on those rare occasions that there is really good wine BTG that isn’t excessively priced, it’s a terrific thing. Particularly if there are just 2 or 3 of you (maybe you want glasses of different wines to go with courses, or the two of you split a bottle and you’ve run out as your steak arrives and want one more glass, etc.).

I also find BTG tends far more often to be a decent option for whites than reds (e.g. get a glass of riesling, gruner, sauvignon blanc etc. to get started before you open your bottle of red).

One might hope that with these new wine dispenser things, restaurants could greatly upgrade their BTG programs, but it’s still fairly rare to find restaurants with worthwhile BTG wines.

14

Do you enjoy the BTG option
I like having the option and occasionally order BTG.

How often will you choose this over a bottle
Depends on the rest of the table. BTG is usually a supplement to a bottle (glass of white, bottle of red or vice versa). We bring a bottle relatively often.

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG
Most of them are mediocre wines or terrible QPRs or both.
Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine
No.

What is your general response to a “bad” glass
Flawed wines get returned. Disappointing / bad glasses get a shrug.

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs
I spend more money at restaurants with good BTG and half-bottle selections. I wish more mid-priced/ethnic restaurants had their act together in this regard. I appreciate the enthusiastic wine-list / sommelier that encourages experimentation and matching to courses. There are too many weak conventional choices that don’t go well with food on BTG lists. The quality of sparkling wine, Chardonnay, and Pinot is especially atrocious.
When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first
I might order a 2nd glass of another selection.

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines
Yes. How about a $7-8 QbA? And get some good white burgs, I’m happy to pay $20 to have something good. Dozens of choices is not the point. It is the restaurant’s job to maintain a level of quality no matter how much alcohol the patrons wish to consume.

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection
No (N/A this is not a problem for me)

15

Full disclosure: I am ITB. When eating out and not working, I often choose restaurants in part for the quality of the wine program. This note applies to meals alone, with one other person or rarely with three, four or more people.

Do you enjoy the BTG option

Yes.

How often will you choose this over a bottle

Most times except with four or more people.

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG

At restaurants serious about wine, it’s usually really good. I’ve posted on line recently about Bern’s in Tampa, FL, The Last Resort in Athens, GA and Crabtree’s Kittle House in Chappaqua, NY. BTG at any of these places is consistently fine.

Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine

No, because I choose restaurants that know better.

What is your general response to a “bad” glass

I send it back.

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs

Most restaurants try to cover their cost with the first glass. That means it’s not a good value, unless the restaurant has a savvy buyer and the owner (sometimes, not always the same person) is thinking about customer satisfaction and return visits.

When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first

Very rare. I’ll either stop with one glass (good wine in my home or hotel room later) or try something else. If it’s a larger party, a glass often leads to a bottle of something else next.

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines

Yes, but then I’m disappointed with myself for being in that restaurant.

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection

No difference. If it’s oxidized, it’s going back anyway.

Dan Kravitz

16

In the business, including a wine bar that serves by the glass and half bottle.

Do you enjoy the BTG option: At most good restaurants. Generally, I will seek out a S/B, Pinot Grigio or Albarino that I’m familiar with or the Somm describes as being in my wheelhouse.

How often will you choose this over a bottle: Rarely and generally only at lunch.

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG: Most are the pits, but there are some excellent programs at some restaurants, particularly here in Napa, New York, Chicago and even LA ;->

Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine: High end restaurants, very, very rarely. Middle of the road (or less) places about 20% of the time that I know of, but some of them had such poor choices, oxidized might have helped.

What is your general response to a “bad” glass: Psst, have you tasted this?

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs: BTG programs vary from place to place and I don’t think you can generalize them.
There are restaurants that have high volume, high quality programs. Then there’s the (pick a country) small restaurant that offers token BTG programs for the low volume of requests or specific types to the “go with the cuisine.” Rule of thumb: High volume, high price; Low volume, high price or cheap swill.

When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first: Never have.

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines: Yes about 50% of the time

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection: Because I usually only order white wines by the glass, absolutely.

17

Do you enjoy the BTG option
→ When done right, absolutely.
How often will you choose this over a bottle
–>Rarely, mostly due to it not be done right in a majority of the restaurants in the United States.
How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG
–>It varies, but typically the strategy that only offers the entry-level wines is missing me as a consumer.
Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine
–>It happens more often than I would like it to, but not so much that it puts me off of the option altogether.
What is your general response to a “bad” glass
–>If there is something wrong with the wine, I have no problem returning it and having a conversation with the server about what is wrong, assuming they want to engage in that dialogue.
Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs
–>Most are priced poorly. I expect to pay a premium over a bottle price breakdown since the remainders on the glass pour program are lost opportunity, but I also recognize that most wine list bottle prices already have sufficient margin in them to cover this unless the by the glass option is dumping 4/5 of a bottle every night.
When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first
→ Absolutely.
Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines
→ Yes.
If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection
→ Yes. It does today. I always check if ordering by the glass. For some wines, I don’t want it it it has been open overnight. One place I have done plenty of glass pour options from always offers to pour you a taste of the wine before pouring your glass. You then get the right of refusal before the serving is doled out. They expect you to reject wines you don’t like in addition to wines that have a flaw. This is really smart, in my opinion. The serving staff has to do some more work, bringing the wine to the table, presenting a taste, waiting for approval, then pouring or going back for another selection. It is worth the effort, in my opinion.

I’m not Bob. I don’t really know where you are going with this. If it is to form a strategy for creating or improving a by the glass program in an establishment of yours, I’d like to think that the input here would translate to a positive program experience for those not as into wine. For the questions about selection, that may be an area where you find this community is going to deviate from the mainstream. For many, a glass pour of wine is a substitute for a mixed drink or beer and therefore is viewed in the value spectrum as needing to cost about that much and deliver some alcohol to you before, during, or after your meal. For that consumer, the house red, white, rose, and bubbly is all you need to make them happy. Find good options that price out where you need them to. For me, those options will probably get passed over and I’ll either bring a bottle or go from the list. A deep and wide selection of half-bottles is a great thing to have for folks like me if you have a BTG program that is pretty basic.

Cheers,
fred

18

I like the by the glass option. I’ll use it if the price is okay. I don’t remember a problem with oxidation, not recently anyway. If I found one this way I’d just send it back.

19

Do you enjoy the BTG option
Yes, when there are decent choices available.

How often will you choose this over a bottle
Quite often. My wife is not near the lush I am. BTG lets me have a glass of white wine with the apps and red with my main course.

How do you feel about the quality of wines being offered BTG
Of course some places need improvement but generally the options are pretty good in the better Bay Area and Napa Valley restaurants.

Do you often get an oxidized glass of wine
No.

What is your general response to a “bad” glass
If by “bad”, you mean oxidized, I send it back. If I just don’t like it I will usually just order something else.

Pricing, overall thoughts on the BTG programs
Usually expensive when compared to a retail bottle of the same wine but not cost prohibitive. The convenience factor is worth something to me.

When you do choose the BTG option, will you order a second glass if you enjoyed the first
Yes.

Are you often disappointed with the selection of the wines
No.

If you were given the option of ordering a glass you KNEW would not be oxidized, over an open bottle would that make a difference in your selection
Not sure I understand this question. If you mean would I prefer they open a fresh bottle for my glass, the answer is “of course.”

I prefer a place that has a few well-thought options versus a big BTG menu. Large numbers of bottles means the chances of getting an oxidized glass are greater.

20

I know this probably doesn’t answer each question in an orderly manner, but here are my thoughts…

I’d much rather order a bottle as the selection is always broader, the prices better (thought usually still bad), and the risk of an oxidized or just “tired” bottle from having been open too long is lower.

Of course that’s not always possible, depending on the circumstance and companions. So I’ll usually use these occasions to try something BTG that I haven’t had. That can be a challenge because so many places have only the usual suspects in their TBG program. My strategy is to try to sit at the bar or at least hover there for a couple of minutes. I do this in order to see the bottles and understand how they’re being kept, how quickly they appear to be turning bottles, etc. And if I can see the selection of BTG bottles that they’re serving from, then I’ll usually scan the bottles to see what particular wine is not currently open, knowing that I’ll be the beneficiary of them opening a new bottle if I order it.

All that said, sometimes BTG is a complete failure. Last night I met friends for drinks at one of the higher-end Atlanta steakhouses. Their BTG program consisted of about 10 whites and 10 reds, all of which I easily could have gone a half-mile away and picked-up off the closest grocery store shelf. And their mark-up was beyond obscene. A glass of Layer Cake (which I wouldn’t want to drink to begin with) for $12 or $15?! Seriously?? Their lack of effort toward a decent wine program and reasonable pricing meant that a)I drank one draft beer and b)we went elsewhere for dinner.

And a final small rant…when asked what wines are available by the glass, any wait staff that replies “we have a chardonnay, a pinot grigio, a merlot and a cabernet” with no attempt to address producers, regions, etc should be immediately escorted from the restaurant.