Bordeaux super seconds (LMHB & LLC): 2008 vs 2014

All. I have been lurking on this forum for a long time and finally signed up as I have to make some decisions and need community help.

Two parts to this thread :slight_smile:

Part I

I like both LMHB and LLC but haven’t tried either of these two ‘value vintages’.

For both LMHB & LLC which of 2008 & 2014 vintage do you recommend. I will be storing for the long haul.


Part II
Ignoring LMHB and LLC for a moment, What do you think is the best QPR in these two vintages in the following price brackets:

  1. $50-$100
  2. $100-$200
  3. $300-$400

Part Deux:

Vieux Chateau Certan.

That said, if you are willing to pay $300-$400 in these vintages for a “QPR,” I would nudge you to buy VCC in any of the excellent vintages, like, 2010, as it is pretty much the best Bordeaux outside of First Growths and Petrus/Ausone/Cheval Blanc, IMHO.

In 2014, so many wines slayed it, but I would highly recommend Pichon Lalande, Grand Puy Lacoste, Sociando, and then perhaps Conseillante and Figeac.

VCC is absolutely on my list. Given 2014 is available for around $170-$200, find it hard to justify spending $270+ on 2016.

Part I: to my taste it’s a no brainer. Buy both 2008 and 2014 LMHB and skip LLC altogether. You will be happy in 10-40 years.

For $300-400, get 96 Leoville las Cases

If he wants Pichon Lalande, he should look at the 2016. Really good

Or 90 LLC. You might even be able to find 82 for $400ish.

Just my opinion, but 2014 VCC is a good wine. However, 2016 VCC is in competition for one of the best wines ever produced at the estate. If you’re willing to spend $200, which is a lot of money, the extra $70 buys you an extrodinary wine.

I haven’t had either, but LMHB and Montrose have such a track record that I had no qualms at all about buying them in 2014. If I were younger, I’d be stocking up on those two for sure.

LMHB has “evolved” quite a lot in style lately. With 14% or more abv being a common occurrence, the profile has shifted. So extrapolating from the evolution of the e.g. 1989 to the projected evolution of the e.g. 2009 may be comparing chalk and cheese. Personally, I am backfilling with off-vintages from the Woltner era (they didn’t make bad wines) which can still be had for less than current releases and which are, if well stored, in no danger of falling of the cliff. Trying to steel myself to buy some 1998 too, which I think the best since 1989, but the opportunity cost is considerable as far as my wine budget is concerned.

1996 or 2005?

2005 still has 5-10 years to peak probably.

Have you tasted the 1996? It is fabulous and still young.

This is how I think for my own purchasing as well. There are still a few relatively sleeper vintages of LMHB out there — for me pre 1989– that I’m always on the lookout for.

Any experience anyone here has had ordering from Bordeaux index in the UK? They seem to have most of the stuff that I am looking for and prices work out quite well including shipping.

I am kinda dabbling with the idea of 2008 LMHB, 2014 LMHB & Pichon Lalande, 2016 VCC & PL and go with Hawards’s reco of 96 LLC. Order futures here in the US and import back-vintages.

Feeling goooood!!

BI are pretty good, shouldn’t have any issues there.

With respect to the VCC 2016 - I somewhat disagree, depending on your age. The 2014 is a better deal if you intend to drink it in the next 15-30 years. 2016 will inevitably have a window of 25-40 to experience true maturity. I would definitely take the 2014 if you are 35 or over, and spend the extra 70 per bottle on a slightly lesser, more early drinking wine such as off vintage Leoville Barton or maybe a Batailley. If you’re 25 however…go for it!

Bordeaux Index I think currently named BI has a US director called Joe Marchant tel 312 823 9299.

Great experiences with him and them

As for VCC debate, all three vintages are superb. The 2014 transcends the vintage and is arguably the best wine, as well as a tertific bargain.

The other two are superb. Not sure any better than 2014. Either way, it is for my money along with Lafleur, the second best wine in Pomerol

And don’t forget the cab franc happy 2011 VCC, most excellent! I grabbed some 2010 recently on clearance for $200. And 2012 Trotanoy for $165. I ran out of that store with a dumbass grin on my face, legs moving like I stole it!

I’m not getting 2015 or 2016 given that I am 52, but were I around 45 or younger, without a doubt.

Robert, let’s use your income as a well established national player and small town country lawyer to buy cases of these wines for me, a young pup without those things but who will benefit from the wines at maturity. Sound like a deal?

I’d be inclined to go this route. Though I did taste the 08’ LLC in its youth and was fairly impressed by it, I’ve never had an LLC that’s rocked me.